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Author Topic: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question  (Read 11313 times)

Jerome Casinger

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What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« on: July 10, 2015, 07:47:38 pm »

Those of you that have been on here a while have watched my journey.  The rig has come a long way from what it started.
This year I have been swamped with all kinds of gigs.  I don't do this for the money ( but I don't undercut ), but have found recently as I get hired for some of the larger gigs, I am reaching my systems capabilities.  Mostly outdoor biker nights where the noise floor is high etc etc, I am really riding it to get the most out of it. 300 to 400 feet back and people are still beyond that.

I sold off my JBL powered rig a couple years ago after it went thermal on an outdoor gig and got a KW rig (4 - 153's and 4 - 181's), its been rock solid.  I found at my last biker gig, I was pushing the tops into clip and was really having to work them hard having to run everything through them unlike inside.  Coverage wise I was only using one set on the subs, because I didn't need the width of coverage.  I am thinking of running the dual set up this month with Vox in one set, instruments in the other to see if I can get further output, but I don't really like having that be my bandaid fix.  Bass wise, I know I was pushing them, I stacked and centered them together, Ive always been surprised at the output of them for the size/cost for front loaded.

I love quick set ups, I like the powered rig especially for my indoor gigs, one set of subs and tops and I am GTG.

I am debating if it would be better to sell 2 - 181's and 2 - 153's since I only need the full current rig outdoors, and then purchase a more efficient outdoor rig ( I know I would have to cough up some cash, but hoping there is an option that isn't going to run me to much).  I could use the 153's and 181's for sidefills or drum subs if needed then.

Is there a solution cost wise lets say 6 or 7k that could get me there?  I am not really into stacking 10 subs and 4 tops a side if you catch my drift, but if that's the best solution so be it, but concerned the 153's aren't really giving me what I need outdoors. 

Most out door places I run at don't have a distro option but have multiple circuits that are clean, hence another reason the powered option has worked really well for here so far as I just run lines to two circuits and am GTG.

I have been reading posts and of course I see Danley TH118's mentioned a lot for sub duty, cost wise doesn't look like that would be an option by the time I add power.  JTR seems like maybe some options but I am sure I am missing stuff.  I haven't been following the power and speaker craze the last couple years, and recal reading certain crown amps had issues etc etc, so just looking to be pointed in the right direction or if I am way off and it isn't an option.

Style of music, country, mostly rock, sometimes Metal (or whatever its called now days).  Local bands. 

Looking for a sanity check.

Steve Loewenthal

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 08:24:31 pm »

I am definitely not one of the more knowledgeable folks on this forum, so take my comments as such.
When you start talking about 300 to 400 feet and beyond, I start thinking more tops farther out on a delay.
As to the bass, it sounds like either stacking more of the same of trade up for more spl in less boxes like the Danleys.
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Steve Loewenthal

"I'm, just the guy in a band that owns the PA and I'm trying to figure out how it works. (Been trying to learn somethin' about it for about 20 years and I hope somethin' learns me soon)"

Jerome Casinger

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 08:31:32 pm »

I was looking at doing some delay boxes at this particular gig in question, however I would have to run gennys to do so, and then it isn't worth the cost/payment ratio.  At about 300 feet is where the bike parking starts and a lot of people hang out there looking at bikes/cars so it doesn't have to be rock star level by any means.  The thing that sucks is the stage has a parking lot right behind it, and a few Harleys fire up with some "brown bottle throttle" and you catch the drift.  Once the band members that are on ears got overwhelmed by what they were hearing...made it interesting.

Really just gauging if for my price range available if there is a better performing system for these gigs, having to put some snare in and get the vocals where they need to be seem to push the box to the limit and it starts to get a little "harsh".  I can make do with what I got if there isn't a clear, hey this really would do you better, solution out there.

I am definitely not one of the more knowledgeable folks on this forum, so take my comments as such.
When you start talking about 300 to 400 feet and beyond, I start thinking more tops farther out on a delay.
As to the bass, it sounds like either stacking more of the same of trade up for more spl in less boxes like the Danleys.

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 08:51:02 pm »

Don't try to do outdoor sound with indoor gear.
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Jerome Casinger

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 08:54:04 pm »

Don't try to do outdoor sound with indoor gear.

No Sh!t Sherlock.....hence the inquiry since I am getting more outdoor gigs.  Would be more than happy to hear you out if you have a post that can contribute.  What rig to you run for this type of event?

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 09:18:41 pm »

No Sh!t Sherlock.....hence the inquiry since I am getting more outdoor gigs.  Would be more than happy to hear you out if you have a post that can contribute.  What rig to you run for this type of event?

Do these gigs even have a budget that will pay for a good generator and serious racks and stacks?  It makes zero sense to recommend anything without knowing the financial and logistic details.

I'd hire as much done/provided as I could, make sure it's all insured and put the take-home in my pocket.   You say you're not under-cutting and I believe you, but I also know the pay-scale for these gigs.  You're hired because you're the cheapest guy they can get who won't F*** it up.

Sorry, but it's not about the gear.  It's about bidness...
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 09:31:57 pm »


Sorry, but it's not about the gear.  It's about bidness...
Back in my rental days, I never had "top quality" gear.  Decent gear yes-but not top stuff.

But I was hired because I knew how to use it, and could deal with the artists and take care of various problems as they arose.

I had a number of "buyers" who would hire me, even though they had seen me have problems at gigs.

But they ALSO saw how I took care of the problems, and that gave them confidence that I could pull it off.

They hired me because of the job I did, NOT the gear that I had.

But I admit that good gear can really help.  But good gear in the wrong hands will not sound good.  And decent gear (even cheap gear) in experienced/knowledgeable hand can produce acceptable results.

But sadly most of the time the gear gets blamed-when it is simply the operators fault.

I am not saying that is the case here-just responding to your quote above.

 
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 09:38:17 pm »

Back in my rental days, I never had "top quality" gear.  Decent gear yes-but not top stuff.

But I was hired because I knew how to use it, and could deal with the artists and take care of various problems as they arose.

I had a number of "buyers" who would hire me, even though they had seen me have problems at gigs.

But they ALSO saw how I took care of the problems, and that gave them confidence that I could pull it off.

They hired me because of the job I did, NOT the gear that I had.

But I admit that good gear can really help.  But good gear in the wrong hands will not sound good.  And decent gear (even cheap gear) in experienced/knowledgeable hand can produce acceptable results.

But sadly most of the time the gear gets blamed-when it is simply the operators fault.

I am not saying that is the case here-just responding to your quote above.

If the business won't pay for the gear, wages, etc and earn a greater return than you can get on a good mutual fund, I'd start thinking about things...

Or you can work within the limits of what you have, put the money in your pocket and remember that you're not going to have "impact" sound past 75', enjoyably loud to maybe 150'.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 09:41:41 pm by dick rees »
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Jerome Casinger

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 10:03:36 pm »

So I have about 4 bands that now use me exclusively, on top of all the other events, this market is lacking in certain departments.  I am not hired for my gear, or by the venues for the most part, however this year that started to change as some guys have brought SOS set ups to these biker fests.  I am hired because I cater to the band and their needs.  I am musician who uses stereo mixed in-ears, therefore, unlike a lot of other guys around here, I....can mix in ears.  I have also "saved the day" on multiple occasions for different reasons on these bands, so our name has been passed around.

Profit...what is that?  How you run your "bidness" isn't how I run mine.  This is not my day job.  My "sound account" doesn't go into my pocket for pleasure or bills, my day job pays for my fun, house, bills, etc.  I put what I make right back into the sound/lighting, recording equipment, etc.  Why?  Well I play in my own band, so upgrading the sound equipment kind of benefits me as well and in the end gives me more if I was to sell it all off anyway.  I make a good profit every show.  Just bought another console, digital snake, new lights within the month and now looking if the remaining funds should be used in this department. 

I was that guy about 8 years ago that found an old heap of a sound system on ebay, got a donation, bought it and have now built a very efficient system that I can really make sing compared to most of the guys running in my size rigs.  Bands know when they hire me who is coming out to run sound, and that they wont be having feedback issues and will have customers walking away happy, I am not booked every weekend for months in advance.

For me, it is always a "whats next situation", how do I improve my rig, what is the lacking component.  Well I have grown myself to a new lacking component.  I now know the rigs limitations, and want to expand them.

Back to the original question, I have 6 to 7 grand to work with currently, if there is a better scalable option that I can easily use for indoor gigs then scale up for out, I have about 10k to burn.  However the ease of use on the KW system indoors, one set of tops/subs, really is convenient and would like to keep it that way.  If the KW system is a good rig and there is nothing in the price I have to work with that will be a decent upgrade for outdoors, then I wont upgrade.  Simple as that.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 10:06:06 pm by Jerome Casinger »
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Jerome Casinger

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Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 10:04:25 pm »

Repeat post....not sure how that happened.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What would you do in my shoes...another Upgrade question
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 10:04:25 pm »


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