Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jon Ross]

Jake,
As Dick mentioned getting yourself a 10 gauge 100 foot extention cord is a worthwhile investment. I also agree without a huge investment, starting over completely is not going to get you anywhere.
What are the power ratings of the 225s and 218s? My initial thought is that the rig is under powered but I'm not familiar with the specs on your amps or speakers. Once you have the rig properly powered the next step would be to learn to use the PA2 to the extent of its abilities and set the limiters properly. Bringing in a fellow sound guy with DSP tuning and setup experience could be a big help. After that, a new console whether it be an x32 or qu32 or whatever should get you on the right track.
Are you getting paid something to do these relay for life events? They do have money to pay for this type of work even though they may tell you they don't. If the service you provide has been much improved over their past events that should make a good case for getting you some or more money you could then use to create a legal business and acquire insurance for your business.

[Mike Pyle]

So far 2 people have suggested that the OP buy a digital mixer. Why? He's doing playback music from a laptop. Maybe a couple of mics for announcements? While the mixer he has may suck it can probably do the job just fine until it breaks.

It sounds to me like gain structure through the Driverack needs to be looked at, both input gain and output gain on the crossover bands. Then determine if the amps are delivering the power needed when they are getting a high enough signal. the OP did not state what the metering on the amps was doing. That must be looked at to determine if they are being driven hard enough for the needed spl.

If the amps are already clipping and it's not loud enough, THEN start shopping for new gear. But a digital mixer would last on my list for this application.

[Jon Ross]

Mike,
I completely agree. I shouldn't have mentioned a digital mixer at all. I also did not catch on that bands were not performing at these events.

[Jake Bekkerus]

Jake,
As Dick mentioned getting yourself a 10 gauge 100 for extention cord is a worthwhile investment. I also agree without a huge investment, starting over completely is not going to get you anywhere.
What is the power ratings of the 225s and 218s? My initial thought is that the rig is under powered but I'm not familiar with the specs on your amps or speakers. Once you have the rig properly powered the next step would be to learn to use the PA2 to the extent of its abilities and set the limiters properly. Bringing in a fellow sound guy with DSP tuning and setup experience could be a big help. After that, a new console whether it be an x32 or qu32 or whatever should get you on the right track.
Are you getting paid something to do these relay for life events? They do have money to pay for this type of work even though they may tell you they don't. If the service you provide has been much improved over their past events that should make a good case for getting you some or more money you could then use to create a legal business and acquire insurance for your business.

Power Ratings:
JRX225
Sensitivity (1w/1m): 100 dB
Nominal Impedance: 4
Power Capacity:1 500 watts
Peak Power Capacity:1 2000 watts
Recommended Amplifier
Power: 500-1000 watts @ 4
Maximum SPL: 133 dB
Nominal Dispersion: 90° x 50°

JRX218S
Sensitivity (1w/1m): 98 dB
Nominal Impedance: 4
Rated Maximum SPL: 133 dB peak, @1 m (3.3 ft)
Power Capacity: 350 watts
Peak Power Capacity: 1400 watts
Recommended Amplifier Power: 350 - 700 watts @ 4 ohms

NU3000
8 Ohm/Channel: 440W
4 Ohm/Channel: 820W
2 Ohm/Channel: 1520W
Damping Factor: >160 @ 8Ohm
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: >100dB

As far as the amp metering goes: The signal display on the amp is somewhere primitive. It has 4 little LEDS and a Clip Signal. I can get most of them lit up with the amp turned almost all the way up on the the tops. The subs I try to keep at only half power to avoid damage. I have on occasion seen the amp clip signal light up and adjusted accordingly. I really think the DRPA2 might be the culprit. If I can get a truer signal through to the amp, I should be able to get a louder volume at a lower amp setting correct?

The piece that worries is me is that right now when I am running the mixer is set to unity on the individual channel and the overall out put. I keep the channel gain at about 2/3. So that's part of why I feel like I have no head room because it seems like the mixer is almost maxed out. I have seen the mixer display a clip warning as well.

Yes I do get paid for these events. Granted it isn't much, but every couple of events I slowly raise the cost. I honestly don't mind that much though, because it is a good cause. I could have taken on a few events that had live bands, but ultimately turned them down because I felt like I wasn't adequately prepared for that. While it isn't of utmost importance to me yet I would like to know that I may at some point be able to expand to that in the future.

[Jake Bekkerus]

Do you guys have suggestions/preferences on where I could find the properly rated cord?

[Brian Jojade]

As far as the amp metering goes: The signal display on the amp is somewhere primitive. It has 4 little LEDS and a Clip Signal. I can get most of them lit up with the amp turned almost all the way up on the the tops. The subs I try to keep at only half power to avoid damage. I have on occasion seen the amp clip signal light up and adjusted accordingly. I really think the DRPA2 might be the culprit. If I can get a truer signal through to the amp, I should be able to get a louder volume at a lower amp setting correct?

No.  Gain is gain. If you are seeing the clip lights, that's as loud as you're going to get.  Setting an optimized gain structure will make the signal a little bit cleaner throughout, but it's not going to make any difference in the maximum output of the system.  Turing the gain up on the DRPA and the gain down on the knobs on the amps will result in a net difference of nothing.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

http://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-cords-cord-management/extension-cords/10-3-100-soow-cable/p-2046795.htm

[Mike Pyle]

I assume that you have the amps switched to full range output and are using the crossover in the DRPA2? What Is the crossover setting between the subs and tops? Do you also have a high pass filter on the subs and a low pass on the tops? If so, what are those set for?

[Jon Ross]

its been a while since I've owned a Dbx Driverack but I remember there was a method for setting limiters in the manual. With no speakers connected to the amps, send pink noise to the mixer and turn up until the signal is just making the clip lights on the mixer outputs blink. Then adjust the PA2 signal inputs and outputs until the clip lights are just blinking. Turn on the amps (no speakers connected!) with amp gains all the way up. Next turn down the PA2 limiters until there are no clip lights on the amps. The theory is if the mixer is not clipping neither are the amps.

[Scott Holtzman]

No.  Gain is gain. If you are seeing the clip lights, that's as loud as you're going to get.  Setting an optimized gain structure will make the signal a little bit cleaner throughout, but it's not going to make any difference in the maximum output of the system.  Turing the gain up on the DRPA and the gain down on the knobs on the amps will result in a net difference of nothing.

Brian is exactly correct on the gain structure.  I still think it is important that you get it setup and understand it.  The Wizard creates, on it's best day, a starting point.

I mentioned the mixer because you said you wanted to do other things with this system and grow your little venture.

Doing outdoor events properly is capital intensive, a stadium even more so.  Many of us smaller guys such as myself hire out and get help setting it up correctly.

Do purchase the power cable, or make the venue buy it for you.  What you need to do is ask them to supply you a 220 outlet, you can break it out to two 120 circuits and use thinner (smaller gauge) wire.

Out of curiosity, what kind of event is this?  Is it a private or a public promoter?  For instance our local Catholic High school hires in a 4ft. stage and uses a 4 box hang of VRX and the provider brings out 8 generic, dual 18 cabinets.  It is adequate us people arent there to hear a band so I doubt anyone complains.   I certainly would not use it for an event charging to see the musical act.

Most people don't think much about what it takes to provide sound reinforcement for a live production.  Many different skills and scores of hardware.  If you enjoy and the fire burns within it can provide an interesting life and living (more than that with your own firm). 

If you have another vocation in mind many of us are so called weekend warriors.  We hang out here because the full time pros are willing to work with us and help us improve our game (as long as we listen).  Doing SR as a part time vocation also has many benefits.

I know that you are wondering if you posted on the right forum.  You got hit with a fire hose and were expected to take a big drink.  You have a big advantage stopping here instead of one of the sites that will just tell you "man what bad ass system, I bet it hits hard.  If you avail yourself of the folks here, you will get a fine support system for your journey.

Lastly, you mentioned the EQ in the PA2 that you were hoping it would protect the speaker.  EQ is actually an easy way to destroy a speaker.  The purpose of EQ is to selectively attenuate or amplify given bands of frequencies in order to compensate for nonlinearities in system performance or room interaction.  Add too much boost and you can fry a tweeter.  We hope you just changed the diaphragm in the on your blew, or else you spent way too much money.  Easy job and lots of videos on Youtube to show you how.  It's easier than putting in and taking out your girlfriend's (and it kinda looks the same).

[ProSoundWeb Community]