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Author Topic: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out  (Read 13332 times)

Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2015, 04:38:08 pm »

I've been using single purpose monitors for some time now and am getting good results.
I'll have monitors for vocal only and monitors for the instrument returns. Gives a point source to the sound and less feedback to boot. So long as you have even a rough idea what is coming for band requirements it works good.
In this picture I had 3 EV SXA250's for the vocals and 2 Peavey 15pm monitors for the instruments. For the type of music the band was happy with the results. The drummer had 1 SXA250 for himself but was happy with a little bit of everything in it.  With the 6 mixes I could do a lot to make the band happy.

Douglas R. Allen
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2015, 08:14:58 pm »

I disagree.  We use Alto TS112As for monitors.  One is fine for me, but since I put two in front of my singer I never hear any complaints about him hearing himself and I set all this stuff up and EQ it and test it myself. A pair of them definitely does not sound worse than one of them.
As to the horns in or out question, it makes no difference.
I would suggest lighting as a career choice for you if you can't hear the difference with 2 speakers facing towards the same position generating the same signals vs a single speaker.

Now whether or not it matters to you-that depends on your expectations.

But it is VERY easy to hear-no matter what loudspeaker you use and NO loudspeaker can avoid this combfiltering.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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David Hayes

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2015, 08:33:29 pm »

I would suggest lighting as a career choice for you if you can't hear the difference with 2 speakers facing towards the same position generating the same signals vs a single speaker.

Now whether or not it matters to you-that depends on your expectations.

But it is VERY easy to hear-no matter what loudspeaker you use and NO loudspeaker can avoid this combfiltering.


You would suggest lighting as a career choice for me?  lol



You are an arrogant effer I'll give you that.  Tell you what Ivan, I don't need you to school me on comb filtering, phase cancellation or any other aspect of live sound actually.  If I need schooling on something I'll ask someone.  Not you, but someone.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 09:30:17 pm by David Hayes »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2015, 09:09:08 pm »


You would suggest lighting as a career choice for me?  lol



You are an arrogant cocksucker I'll give you that.  Tell you what Ivan, I don't need you to school me on comb filtering, phase cancellation or any other aspect of live sound actually.  If I need schooling on something I'll ask someone.  Not you, but someone.  ;)

But he's our arrogant man about town, and he's right.

Whether or not you think the laws of physics don't apply, they do. 
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2015, 09:17:05 pm »

I may be wrong, and many times I am , but don't we have rules regarding profanity here?

Douglas R. Allen
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David Hayes

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2015, 09:34:54 pm »

I may be wrong, and many times I am , but don't we have rules regarding profanity here?

Douglas R. Allen

Probably.   I edited it. My apologies.

I know physics are physics, but whatever comb filtering is going on with a couple wedges in front of a guy is not going to be any different than the comb filtering going on on any stage which has wedges going across it.  And obviously the benefits can outweigh the disadvantages.
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David Hayes

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2015, 09:37:07 pm »

But he's our arrogant man about town, and he's right.

Whether or not you think the laws of physics don't apply, they do.

You can keep him.  ;)

Plenty of other people know more than he does and aren't cocky MFers.

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2015, 09:38:01 pm »

What fucking profanity?  Neither Bob nor I have been asked to stop using properly placed expletives.  This is an adult group.

I do need to learn to turn it off.  The youth pastor suggested to me that telling the teen worship group they "sounded like shit and to get their head in the game,  its not a race to finish the song" through the hoot and holler mic was a bit much.  Whatever, I got a round of yes sirs and results.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2015, 10:26:38 pm »

Probably.   I edited it. My apologies.

I know physics are physics, but whatever comb filtering is going on with a couple wedges in front of a guy is not going to be any different than the comb filtering going on on any stage which has wedges going across it.  And obviously the benefits can outweigh the disadvantages.
Do you know what even CAUSES comb filtering?

It is two signals arriving at a spot at slightly different times.

You get the most "effect" when the signals are equal in level-such as 2 monitors pointed at a single point.

When you have monitors spaced across as stage (and all getting the same signal), the ones further away will be contributing less to the one you are closest to (inverse square law), so it will not be much of an issue.

But when you are "inbetween" two loudspeakers, where the levels are equal, there WILL be comfiltering-as soon as you move a inch or so from dead center.

Here is a Fun simple test to prove my point.

Take 2 small single, driver full range speakers and put one on top of the other.  Put them in parallel to each other and listen at some distance away, 5' 10' 20' whatever with pink noise applied.

Have a friend move one of them back even 1 or 2 inches.

The difference SHOULD be astounding-and quite enlightening.

If not-then that job in lighting (or maybe video) is still available.

YES even a couple of inches makes a HUGE difference.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

David Hayes

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Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2015, 10:40:25 pm »

Ok Ivan.  I am no big shot engineer like you, but my singer ( also my guitarist and therefore pretty static) likes it much better and having stood in his spot setting them up I notice nothing horrible, so I think i'll just keep on doing it.

How is the effect of a couple monitor wedges sitting next to each other pointing at a single spot bad and the effect of a center clustered gang of subs good?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Monitors, Horns in vs. Horns out
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2015, 10:40:25 pm »


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