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Author Topic: Sparky Language Lesson  (Read 11310 times)

Frank DeWitt

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2015, 11:55:21 am »

I did some research on this a while back.  As you mention, 110v was a historical maximum: 100V + 10% allowable, which was revised in 1954 (ANSI C84) to the current US voltage standard of 120v +/- 5%.

Wow, that was quick.  Thanks.   BTW Just for fun I checked some manuals and advertising for Kohler light plants  (Generator)
1920  - 110
1926 -  110
1924 - 110
1228 -  110
1937  - 115
1941 - 115
1945 -  115
1947 -  115

I have a 1947 It is rated at 115 Volt, A C  I am going to readjust it for 120.  I take it to engine shows and use it to make coffee and waffles in the morning so the faster cook time will be welcome.  (Grin)  BTW The waffle iron is marked 110 V and is around 1920.  No I am not serious about worrying about this
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Timothy J. Trace

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2015, 11:57:39 am »

Testing is necessary.

Always!

Your #6 cables are fairly commonly used for 50A distribution, however technically they are illegal.  A picky inspector may ding you on that.  For future cable purchases, move up to #4 cabling for 50A.  You'll have less voltage drop, and less to worry about from inspectors.

Better, then, to spec 45A service?    --- I'm trying to interpret NEC Table 400.5(A).
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2015, 12:21:59 pm »

Always!

Better, then, to spec 45A service?    --- I'm trying to interpret NEC Table 400.5(A).

It will be a LOT more common to find 50A/220V service (breakers, outlets) then 45A/220V whether installed or available to be installed by whomever you are sending the requirements to.

-Ray
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2015, 12:24:41 pm »

Always!

Better, then, to spec 45A service?    --- I'm trying to interpret NEC Table 400.5(A).

Asking for 45 amp service will make them think you're crazy.

From the practical standpoint, you're unlikely to have an inspector reject your use if the rest of your electrical distribution is safe and compliant.  I'm with TJ - bigger wire is always better :)
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Timothy J. Trace

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2015, 12:33:12 pm »

Asking for 45 amp service will make them think you're crazy.

Tim, we established YEARS ago that guys named "TJ" are indeed crazy.  ;)

....and that's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to learn from this topic. How to not act crazy in front of the grown-ups. So, thank you.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 12:43:54 pm by Timothy J. Trace »
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2015, 12:50:08 pm »

Tim, we established YEARS ago that guys named "TJ" are indeed crazy.  ;)

....and that's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to learn from this topic. How to not act crazy in front of the grown-ups. So, thank you.
Indeed.  :)

I wouldn't sweat your #6 wire if the rest of your distro equipment is high quality, but going forward, it's a worthy investment to get the right wire.  Incidentally, 8/4 is a better choice for 30A two-phase cables than 10/4, and 8/5 is DEFINITELY better than 10/5 for 3-phase L21-30 stuff.
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Timothy J. Trace

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2015, 12:56:12 pm »

I wouldn't sweat your #6 wire if the rest of your distro equipment is high quality...

My cable assemblies (125', 50') and 25' tails are well-built and maintained. My box is a Motion Labs 3-space Rac Pack in a roto molded rack. I've got 30' of Guard Dog 3-channel drop-in protectors and another 30 feet of 2-channel drop-over protectors. I think it looks good when deployed.


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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2015, 01:29:05 pm »

Everybody sweats ampacity-depending on whether or not the neutral "counts" # requires a 45 amp breaker or a 60 breaker (rounded up to next standard size which are 45,50, 60...)

However a 50 amp load will have a 32 volt drop and the end of your assembly. To keep within the 5% voltage drop guideline #6 maxes out at roughly 60 feet.  Or 200 feet maxes out at 18 amps.  Your continuous load will be ok-but what happens to your amps when the subs quick in? 
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Frank Koenig

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2015, 01:40:16 pm »

Wow, that was quick.  Thanks.   BTW Just for fun I checked some manuals and advertising for Kohler light plants  (Generator)
1920  - 110
1926 -  110
1924 - 110
1228 -  110
1937  - 115
1941 - 115
1945 -  115
1947 -  115

I have a 1947 It is rated at 115 Volt, A C  I am going to readjust it for 120.  I take it to engine shows and use it to make coffee and waffles in the morning so the faster cook time will be welcome.  (Grin)  BTW The waffle iron is marked 110 V and is around 1920.  No I am not serious about worrying about this

You beat me to it. I was going to ask what is the age of the NEWEST piece of (US configured) gear anyone knows about that says 110V on the nameplate. For me it's an amp I used to have (6V6 push-pull, no negative feedback) that was late 1930s.

More dead horse flogging: Can we agree to call the 120/240V grounded center tap service prevalent in the US "120/240V single-phase" or "125/250V single-phase"? It is not split-phase or two-phase. (Look what it says on the nameplate.) A legitimate use of two-phase is in the context of certain AC-servo motors (that went out of style in the 1960s) where the two phases are 90 deg, not 180 deg, apart. Anyhow, Ivan will argue that it's polarity, not phase   :)

-F

PS: Your cook time should vary as roughly the inverse square of the voltage. Waffles. Yum.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 01:43:57 pm by Frank Koenig »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2015, 02:04:50 pm »

More dead horse flogging: Can we agree to call the 120/240V grounded center tap service prevalent in the US "120/240V single-phase" or "125/250V single-phase"? It is not split-phase or two-phase. (Look what it says on the nameplate.) A legitimate use of two-phase is in the context of certain AC-servo motors (that went out of style in the 1960s) where the two phases are 90 deg, not 180 deg, apart. Anyhow, Ivan will argue that it's polarity, not phase   :)

Yes please.

And Ivan would be correct since the 2 legs of a 120/240 single phase service are the same (single) phase but 180 out of polarity.

Mac
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Re: Sparky Language Lesson
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2015, 02:04:50 pm »


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