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Author Topic: Combo cinema and PA sound system  (Read 4511 times)

Timmy Liland

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Combo cinema and PA sound system
« on: June 14, 2015, 04:55:30 pm »

I have some questions regarding an installation that will be finished in 2017.

There will be cinema, brass bands, amplified acoustic instruments, rock nīroll and theater performances on this stage.

The audience area is 17m wide and 15m deep. (Back wall to speaker hang)
Ceiling height is 10m.
There are around 350 seats in 13 rows, the back row is 4m above floor level.
The front row is around 2m from the speaker hang.

Does anyone have experience with installed loudspeaker systems that can be used for both cinema and normal PA duty? (There will be aditional senter and surround speakers.)

What is most suitable in this room, line array or point source?
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 03:41:11 pm »

I have some questions regarding an installation that will be finished in 2017.

There will be cinema, brass bands, amplified acoustic instruments, rock nīroll and theater performances on this stage.

The audience area is 17m wide and 15m deep. (Back wall to speaker hang)
Ceiling height is 10m.
There are around 350 seats in 13 rows, the back row is 4m above floor level.
The front row is around 2m from the speaker hang.

Does anyone have experience with installed loudspeaker systems that can be used for both cinema and normal PA duty? (There will be aditional senter and surround speakers.)

What is most suitable in this room, line array or point source?

Point Source. 

Budget?

Don't get cinema speakers, get PA speakers.
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Cailen Waddell

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Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2015, 04:19:39 pm »

We have a 200 seat theater that does live music and cinema with a 7.1 system.

The system is danley sound labs speakers

Briefly

SM-100b for left right and center
Sh-micro for all surrounds
Th-112x2 subs under front of stage. Our sub choice may of been different with different space options.

Console is a Yamaha cl3 fed by a surround decoder.  Each channel is fed discretely through the console. 

Biamp audia to do processing and alignment.

The screen is retractable with the L/C/R above the screen.  Imaging works fine. Given an AT screen and seperate speakers wasn't an option.

The room is very dry, purposefully, for movies.  The surrounds being accessible from the console are also helpful as we sometimes put a little reverb on the whole PA and rout the return to the surrounds with the right kind of act.  If done discretely it can give a little sense of space to the hall. 

I always prefer a point source in an installation. Line arrays just don't do it for me 


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Timmy Liland

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 04:34:24 pm »

Point Source. 

Budget?

Don't get cinema speakers, get PA speakers.


Budget is around USD 100000 for ALL the sound equipment.
(PA, monitors, mixer, mikes, kables, etc)

Unfortunately, due to the bidding process we canīt get better quality second hand equipment. This also means that we canīt buy what we want.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 04:44:23 pm by Timmy Liland »
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John L Nobile

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 04:55:36 pm »

Our room has a live show and we show movies in it as well. It;s a resort so we play family movies and sports events. A pair of Danley SH96HO's and a pair of SBH218's and I gotta say that it's the best movie/live sound I've ever heard in that room. It's only run in stereo but it works for me.
Room is 72' wide and either 75' or 105' deep with 16' ceiling.

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Scott Carneval

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 05:43:18 pm »

We have a 200 seat theater that does live music and cinema with a 7.1 system.

The system is danley sound labs speakers

Briefly

SM-100b for left right and center
Sh-micro for all surrounds
Th-112x2 subs under front of stage. Our sub choice may of been different with different space options.

Console is a Yamaha cl3 fed by a surround decoder.  Each channel is fed discretely through the console. 

Biamp audia to do processing and alignment.

The screen is retractable with the L/C/R above the screen.  Imaging works fine. Given an AT screen and seperate speakers wasn't an option.

The room is very dry, purposefully, for movies.  The surrounds being accessible from the console are also helpful as we sometimes put a little reverb on the whole PA and rout the return to the surrounds with the right kind of act.  If done discretely it can give a little sense of space to the hall. 

I always prefer a point source in an installation. Line arrays just don't do it for me 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cailen gave me a demo a while back and the room sounds truly incredible. 
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Glen Kelley

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 11:14:29 am »


Console is a Yamaha cl3 fed by a surround decoder.  Each channel is fed discretely through the console. 

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Cailen, if you don't mind me asking, what surround decoder are you using? Is there a control system for day-to-day use, or do you always have a tech available?
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 11:37:13 am »


Cailen, if you don't mind me asking, what surround decoder are you using? Is there a control system for day-to-day use, or do you always have a tech available?

We have a extron ssp 7.1

We are changing to a denon 500av so we can decode from the hdmi audio and get higher quality audio. 

We have a crestron control system but I did not get it programmed so it can be operated without a technician.  I feel there are too many variables in play for that to be reliable.  Especially considering the number of old movies with potentially odd formats...  Dolby 3.0?  Ok. Should i route to subs?  That sort of stuff. 

The crestron does some input switching and routing to lobby monitors, backstage monitors, etc.  Remote projector control, etc. 

If I wanted operation without a tech I think we would of looked into an integrated theater control/audio/projection package that can adjust screen masking and dim lights, etc. 



If I wanted to go the route with


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Glen Kelley

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2015, 11:08:29 am »

We have a extron ssp 7.1

We are changing to a denon 500av so we can decode from the hdmi audio and get higher quality audio. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, Cailen. I have the Denon 500av in our student union cinema, and we are putting the Extron in a new student housing project, but both have drawbacks. Was hoping you had found a magic bullet! It seems there are either "pro-sumer" home theater options, or full on pro solutions that are super-pricey.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2015, 11:09:55 am »

The extron certainly has extra processing power, with EQ and delay, but it isn't something we used.  Be aware with that box you can NOT get an full 7.1 signal.  It will always be a 5.1 with the box matrixing the extra rear surrounds. 


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MikeHarris

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 08:00:35 am »

I would think something like the Denon 500AV for HDMI decoding into a BSS Blu100 might give you the flexibility & integration you need...with simple control.
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David Buckley

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Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2015, 06:34:31 pm »

I take it by "cinema" you do not mean DCP cinema, just DVD / Blu-ray?

Most cinema professionals will tell you that you should have separate systems for cinema and PA, but most of these these guys still think that PAs are what they were two or three (or more!) decades ago. 

The important part of cinema speakers is voice intelligibility, and thus you need speakers that are good with voice.  Ideally, you want a single driver that covers the important frequency range of 300 - 3K, which is why traditional cinema speakers have a physically large horn, to go as low as 300Hz.

If you cant get the vocal range on one driver, then the system needs to have decent phase coherence over that frequency range.  I note that folks who have chimed in above are using Danley for this application, and given the little I know of their systems (and having never heard one) I suspect they are an excellent choice.

Given the QSC have entered the cinema market and have some damned fine products that are very well regarded, I'd get on the horn with them and see if their products will do both jobs you need well.

Surounds: in this digital age the surround channels have become far more important than they were, and thus the surround channels should have the same voice as L/C/R, or as stuff pans around it will sound shit.  There are also more surround channels becoming popular, so wire the surrounds so you can have four channels of surrounds (ie side and back separate) should you want to have 7.1.

Subs: subs should go down to 20Hz or a tad lower if possible.  Whether you want to run them for PA that low is a matter of judgement.

Finally: you'll want to read Dolby Technical guidelines for Dolby Stereo Theatres, available as a PDF (3.7MB) for download from Film-Tech, or read online in sections.   And note it is from a long time ago, but at least its a start in the right direction.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Combo cinema and PA sound system
ÂŦ Reply #11 on: July 12, 2015, 06:34:31 pm Âŧ


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