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Author Topic: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series  (Read 37817 times)

Jeff Lelko

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2017, 06:15:50 pm »

Nathan, I'm still very much interested in this product too, and I'm scheduling a demo with a dealer (who also is a member here) just after the New Year.  The C3500, C1500, and IP8 with a CDM32 will be what I'm looking at, and if you don't mind driving a few hours south I'm sure you'd be welcome to tag along if you'd like to see/touch/hear one for yourself!
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2017, 07:29:34 pm »

To fulfill JR's comment about posters telling what they know rather than answering the question...

Executive Summary - Everyone has an opinion and everyone has digestive gases.  Everyone has a preferred mixing console for whatever reasons he/she can rationalize or afford or specify on a rider.  The Real Mixerpersonsģ can deliver a sonically similar show every night regardless of Brand Name so long as the desks have similar capabilities.  Bad carpenters blame their tools, too.

Full Disclosure - I've not mixed a show on the new Allen-Heath mixers (haven't seen one "in the wild", either) but didn't really find anything sonically objectionable - for their place in the market - with the earlier consoles and doubt they got worse instead of better; I've mixed 1 show on an SD series and it's less confusing than the Midas UI I so thoroughly deplore, but I didn't hear anything that made me want to cut a purchase order, either.

I think some Mixerpersons are different than the rest of us - different, like a neurotic guitarist - and they really do breath different air from the rest of we mere mortals.  Some of them turn out exquisite mixes and tend to fully utilize (or not) the facilities of their preferred console; others turn out shit mixes and tend to fully utilize the facilities of their preferred console.  /sigh

I had 2 Mixerpersons on consecutive dates in the same arena... one of them called Avid S6L "absolute crap" but the other guy praised it as "in the top 3 mixers" and we were discussing sound quality, not ergonomics or configuration hassles or UI.  Neither was mixing their show on an S6L but they had strong opinions anyway.

Anecdote:  About 10 years ago we had a show with 3 artists, 2 of whom were carrying digital mixers.  The act without a desk had a BE that had never operated a Yammy M7 (or any other digital mixer) and that was our desk for support...  I helped him with sound check and assisted in navigating to things he wanted to change.  I was close by at showtime, too, and helped with UI things but left him to his work.  The other BEs were a bit condescending of this fellow but had no place; he easily had the best sound from the PA that night, mixing on a desk he'd never touched before.

Commercial perspective - We're more likely to buy either the console that can become a frequent line item on the invoice; or the console that represents the lowest cost that meets the technical requirements of the shows we do that will be accepted at least 80% of the time (and that can't be a separate, billable item).

Yes, and it's also my opinion as I don't romanticize hardware either, however I think the SD-9 is an easier sell than the dLive, however it's a much older design.  Will the value prop change before the payments are all made?

When we are in charge of the production the M32 is an easy sell.  When I am just supplying the PA it's another line item.  Right now I am just gathering data, however after a season of cross renting I will know what the right decision will be.

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Dave Pluke

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2017, 08:37:20 pm »

Yes, and it's also my opinion as I don't romanticize hardware either, however I think the SD-9 is an easier sell than the dLive, however it's a much older design.  Will the value prop change before the payments are all made?

It is an older design, BUT, version 2 of Stealth Core software breathes new life into the SD9.

http://www.digico.biz/docs/latest_news/EuVylkFVyZzZsmRPHl.shtml

Whether or not that tips the scales, it is refreshing to see manufacturers who continue to release upgrades for older digital consoles.

Dave
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Peter Morris

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2017, 02:51:55 am »

Jonathan Lieurance 2 November 27 at 8:07pm:
I would take DiGiCo. The dLive sounds terrible and is convoluted and slow to work on. The DiGiCo sounds great and is laid out like a console. The work flow is clear and makes sense. The expand ability is tremendous and integration with other DiGiCo consoles is great. I know we have a lot of A&H lovers on here, and I loved my GL3000. It was a work horse for years. But after mixing on a variety of the new ones, I just donít get the attraction.

Jonathan Lieurance November 27 at 8:32pm
To me it sounded muffled and thin at the same time. The high end articulation was disjointed as if phase shifts were happening, which caused the imaging of a stereo pair to be nearly imperceivable, all muddled together. The low end response was slow and flappy and suffered some of the same perils of the high end disjointedness. It was like eating bad BBQ, no matter how much sauce I put on, it was still dry and tasteless. And what is up with the blue light special buttons??! Who makes a console where you donít send the aux from the channel? In all fairness, I loved the copy/paste functions. So there is that.


Seriously - what a load of absolute rubbish, the old M7 and LS9 didn't sound so good but everything that has been release over the past few years sounds great, and none of those comments are appropriate for any of them.

I own a dLive and until recently I also owned a Midas Pro2, both sounded superb but I would probably give a slight edge to the dLive for sound quality.

Iím aware of a major firm in the UK that has done some indepth  testing and they came to the conclusion that the dLive was the best sounding console they own Ö and they have a serious collection of consoles!

Digico, which is part of the same company as A&H have just release this new input card to raise the stakes even higher-provided you have the $$$  - http://www.digico.biz/docs/about/32bit-Mic-Pre-Amp-Card.shtml

In terms of UI the dLive is fantastic, quick and easy to use. The AUX sends can be sent from the channel in almost any way you like - sends on faders or rotaries, and fader flip from the channel or Aux send, you can even program those 6 knobs down side of the screen to be a total 18 aux sends and drive the desk like an old analogue board. 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:17:25 am by Peter Morris »
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2017, 10:30:38 am »

Spenser can you share some of those reasons?  Did you by the tour pack of the SD-9? 

The SD-9 is getting up there in console age and the dLive is a new design.

 While both we a joy to mix on, I personally got along better/faster on the Digico. That is a purely subjective point.

 At the time we made the purchase, the DLive was very new and didn't have all the benefits that the last few software updates have added. The original scene management wasn't great, although I have heard that this was improved upon since.

 We found visiting techs to be much more receptive to the SD9, if they have a show file for any of the SD range we can get you up and running quickly on the SD9. We had one tech refuse the DLive while we had the demo unit, luckily we had rented an M32 for monitor duty so we just flipped the consoles and he was happy, this was the ultimate nail in the coffin. (As an aside, the DLive is very intuitive for monitor mixing)

 Our reason for purchasing a console was so that we could stop spending so much money on rental consoles, we looked at our rental expenses over the last 5 years and determined that we could very quickly break even very quickly on that alone. When you factor in the labour, and wear and tear, spent packing up our old house console (Soundcraft GB4-40) several times a week during our busy season, and the subjective value of having industry standard tech, it became a no brainer.

 The Core 2 updates for the SD range put any worries about life span to rest for me, the console was purchased with a planned lifecycle, when that time is up we will be selling it for whatever value it might still have and moving on to something new.
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Scott Mullane

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2017, 03:11:42 am »

I've read all the dLive threads and this one seems most appropriate.

Jonathan Lieurance 2 November 27 at 8:07pm:
I would take DiGiCo. The dLive sounds terrible and is convoluted and slow to work on. The DiGiCo sounds great and is laid out like a console. The work flow is clear and makes sense. The expand ability is tremendous and integration with other DiGiCo consoles is great. I know we have a lot of A&H lovers on here, and I loved my GL3000. It was a work horse for years. But after mixing on a variety of the new ones, I just don’t get the attraction.

Jonathan Lieurance November 27 at 8:32pm
To me it sounded muffled and thin at the same time. The high end articulation was disjointed as if phase shifts were happening, which caused the imaging of a stereo pair to be nearly imperceivable, all muddled together. The low end response was slow and flappy and suffered some of the same perils of the high end disjointedness. It was like eating bad BBQ, no matter how much sauce I put on, it was still dry and tasteless. And what is up with the blue light special buttons??! Who makes a console where you don’t send the aux from the channel? In all fairness, I loved the copy/paste functions. So there is that.


I am sorry Nathan Riddle, but if you really think that this guys remarks are more appropriate then you really have not given D-live a chance. I am in the fortunate position to be the person writing the riders for the acts I tour with and the production supplier gives me the board I want. I am not fussy and can mix on most modern digital boards without feeling too limited. I still work regularly on Avid boards and Digico's from SD7 through to SD11 depending on the situation and I am very familiar with them and can set them up myself happily. I am here to tell you that D-live sounds better and is far easier too use. Period! I spec it exclusively now and always get many positive comments about how an in house rig has never sounded as good. I spec it because it sounds better and is easier to use. My experiences are polar opposite to Jonathan and I find it warm and precise with very fast transients and a tight low end. I often find myself with no house EQ on my Adamson S10 rig.
Adlib Productions in the UK has most major boards and just purchased D-live and they not only thought that it sounded better, but their tech dept. ran tests and proved it on the bench as well. See below is a statement from their tech., George Puttock.

"You will be pleased to know that these are literally the cleanest digital boards we own. We stuck it on our posh Audio Precision testgear and found that both the IMD, THD, THD+n and 1/f noise to be far far far lower than any console (or processor) we own. The THD and IMD we measured actually whooped the published specs, even when 1dB below clip, AT ALL FREQUENCIES!
Most manufacturers quote their THD spec at 1k or another spot frequency. You measure them and find them to conform to the specs, but when you look at other spot frequencies, the THD is though the roof. Not the dLive, which now supersedes all of our existing gubbins and now becomes our quality benchmark in Adlib, even surpassing Lake! (Which has bloody awesome specs for the record)...
Don't think I even need to mention how the latency is even faster both synchro and async than virtually every other digital console on the planet.

So all in all, A&H have made a massive leap forward in tech, & other manufacturers should take heed!"


Peter Morris owned a Pro2 and sold it in favour of a D-Live. Here are three real world examples of serious people using serious gear who have nothing but glowing reviews. I am fine with Jonathan Lieurance not liking the board as a matter of preference, but his isolated experience speaks of either something wrong with the system or simply he had a bad day and D-live is not his preference....and that is fine, but do not take a statement like that as gospel. Spend time with it yourself to make your own mind up.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 05:49:55 am by Scott Mullane »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2017, 04:25:12 am »


Peter Morris owned a Pro2 and sold it in favour of a D-Live. Here are three real world examples of serious people using serious gear who have nothing but glowing reviews. I am fine with Jonathan Lieurance not liking the board as a matter of preference, but his isolated experience speaks of either something wrong with the system or simply he had a bad day and D-live is not his preference....and that is fine, but do not take a statement like that as gospel. Spend time with it yourself to make your own mind up.

Who is Jonathan Lieurance and why does his opinion matter?
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Scott Mullane

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2017, 05:52:00 am »

Who is Jonathan Lieurance and why does his opinion matter?

I do not know who he is, but it is the person who's opinions Nathan refers to in his post on page 7 of this thread.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2017, 08:23:42 am »

Who is Jonathan Lieurance and why does his opinion matter?
I do not know who he is, but it is the person who's opinions Nathan refers to in his post on page 7 of this thread.

I think Tim's post is tongue in cheek.  ::)

I've read all the dLive threads and this one seems most appropriate.
I am sorry Nathan Riddle, but if you really think that this guys remarks are more appropriate then you really have not given D-live a chance.

Spend time with it yourself to make your own mind up.

"Appropriate" meaning instead of starting a new thread and of the other dLive threads; this one seemed the best to post in.
Not appropriate meaning Jonathan Lieurance's opinions have any weight or mean anything at all.

Try re-reading my statements and own replies in the discussion I quoted from Space Face (Tim's eloquence is amazing).

And I believe Jeff Lelko's thread is the one I posted in extensively about dLive. To re-iterate, In general I have played/mixed on it @ Infocomm; and I felt it was a much better board than all the others I played/mixed on that day/week. I thought the ease of use & ergonomics was blowing every other board out of the water. As far as sound quality is concerned, these forums have taught me that it is the audio mixer not the equipment... thought equipment can have extra technical abilities or 'plugins' (for lack of better word) that can tailor the sound to be more pleasing; but in general it is the person using the gear that matters most not the gear itself.

At the end of the day, If I had the money I'd buy dLive right now. It's still the best board (for me). Alas, I'll be dreaming about it and hope SQ gets some of dLive's plugins/FX engines :)

Nathan, I'm still very much interested in this product too, and I'm scheduling a demo with a dealer (who also is a member here) just after the New Year.  The C3500, C1500, and IP8 with a CDM32 will be what I'm looking at, and if you don't mind driving a few hours south I'm sure you'd be welcome to tag along if you'd like to see/touch/hear one for yourself!

Hey Jeff, sorry I forgot to respond!

Absolutely! You're a good day's drive away (8hrs), but I might have my SQ6 by then (supposedly 1st week Jan) and we could all have a good fun day. Maybe Art would come by as well and we could have a PSW get-together :)

Let me know when you're going to do the demo!
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Scott Mullane

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Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2017, 03:25:49 pm »

"Appropriate" meaning instead of starting a new thread and of the other dLive threads; this one seemed the best to post in.

Ah! Apologies for misinterpreting your post. Hope that you enjoy your coming SQ.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New Allen & Heath: dLive Series
¬ę Reply #79 on: December 08, 2017, 03:25:49 pm ¬Ľ


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