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Author Topic: JBL VRX 932 "Straight away" (?) rails to strighten a VRX curve for more boxes  (Read 11497 times)

Tim McCulloch

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I assume your right. It's hard to tell why, I have been hired and worked directly for/by Harmon Professional a few times, and they seem to have A LOT of money, for things like lawyers, in comparison to other manufacturers. And even if it was a good idea they might STOMP it if it threatens the sales of a higher end product. If the VRX could be tweaked to be better, they might not want that to hurt the other boxes

There is one of the local companies here that has 932 and they also have the small Vertec (the 4887 I think it was) an while this may open a bunch of responses form the VRX haters here, I am only repeating what THEY say (NOT ME) and they actually prefer the 932 to that one .....but hate the rigging.

So again I am not here to praise or attack this box. Or say I like a Ford Mustang more then a Camaro or Challenger.   

I'm not a VRX fanboy - there are better products to the job - but hey, it's a "run what you brung" business sometimes.

JBL would send a lawyerly nasty-gramme if someone built a product that infringed on the JBL name/logo or implied any endorsement by JBL.  If the offender persisted they'd sue.  I don't know what finally happened in this case.

It was suggested back when the product came out if JBL approved the use and at least 1 VRX owner I talked with told me that he'd asked JBL and JBL responded that use of non-JBL suspension products "below the rigging bar" would void the warranty on the rigging and possibly the entire box.  The same owner asked the modification supplier for stamped engineering documents and never received them.  He didn't buy.

I agree that we either supply what folks want, or they move on.  That's actually probably a good thing in some cases.  In your shop the customer specifies what they want and presumably the customer is responsible for the performance of the system design.  The issue with a "straight hang" of VRX is the additional interference created between the flat-hung boxes.  It's likely that you'll create a bigger problem at the back of the room while attempting to make things better up front.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Andrew Klingensmith

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Are the rental customers actually asking to hang more than 3?  Someone trying to rent cheaper boxes and make it look like a full blown J hang of something else?

The VRXs were designed with a wider vertical pattern on purpose to be used in smaller situations with less boxes and that's why they have the fixed mount angle.  Straightening them out defeats the design purpose.

The alternative would be something like Meyer Mina's or Melodies.  We have a conference room here at work with a 3 Mina hang and I've worked with Melodies in hotel ballroom/corporate events.  This would be for things where the speakers are supposed to not be a big visual issue and someone has it in their head that a "line array" is called for.

I would think that if someone had an event that needed more SPL than 2-3 VRXs, then they would be going for something else.


No, no one is asking for them in banks of 4. It's more the fact that if I have them, I thought maybe I could get the brackets, why not, they are here anyhow. I agree with the "your on your own" comments , if/when you change anything off the intended design. I don't fly the VRX subs so I would think the hardware is strong enough, but who knows. I just have heard of several people 'cheating' these into a slightly straighter curve then the 'half moon' they would almost make, and those folks seemed very happy, in the same way if you put a pair of 60x90 traps next to each other.....some point source boxes are 'too close ...could cause phase issues', etc but they do it anyhow, it sounds good, they make money, they go home paid.  Perfect? no. Down and dirty and client is happy? Yes. But maybe it's a bad idea. I would never do more then 4 aside no matter what the brackets anyhow. Maybe I can just do more delayed hangs if the need ever comes up, as opposed to larger hangs. Truthfully, it may never come up. We rent more to others then we actually do ourselves when it comes to anything past 1500 or so seats there are a lot of players here in my market and odds are we won't get the job. We aren't very aggressive or competitive when it comes to sound in the first place as normally we assist sound companies and won't compete head to head with our customer base. Ours are often off beat, ethnic, or other one off shows below the radar, or nothing the pro sound guys are too interested in anyhow 
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Andrew

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Ray Aberle

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  Perfect? no. Down and dirty and client is happy? Yes. But maybe it's a bad idea.

Maybe it's a bad idea? Rigging failures can be fatal. End of story. I would have more respect for a provider that refuses to do something that is dangerous instead of "hey, we're just gonna make it work for you."

And now, the never forgetting Interwebz has you on record knowing that these are an potentially unsafe, untested, non-engineering-approved, unrated brackets, and to use them (and have a failure) could increase your potential liability. Read closely what Riley said. Do you want to be involved in that type of litigation, esp once your insurance company (and their expensive lawyers) realise the hole you're in?

Sorry, Andrew, if I come across as super blunt, but rigging and electrical are two areas where safety needs to come before client needs. If you have to turn down a rental, better that then the potential consequences.

... and nothing wrong with flying 6 boxes of VRX. It does work, if the venue coverage requires it... just let the engineered rigging hardware do its thing.

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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Matthew Knischewsky

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Hey Andrew,

As others have mentioned, flattening out the VRX array is a bad idea on many levels. It's not something that should be done.

I've had good results manipulating the horn shading switches on the cabinets, but these work in passive mode only so that's the way the boxes are run 99% of the time. That, and a little bit of amp shading and EQ shading can get good results. Also the calculator for these boxes can help but I've found that experience gets me closer to the results I'm after. I've done more than a few shows with themů.

2 and 3 box arrays sound best IMO. At 4 boxes/side things start getting weirder than they already are so that's where I start to draw the line if more output or coverage is needed, I move up to a bigger rig, 87As or VTX V20s usually. But that's a BIG increase in the budget plus all the additional hardware, amps etc needed to run the better cabinets.

The 932s have made their money back many times over. In my market they're going out all the time while the "real" boxes sit on the shelf waiting for their turn. So even though there's the sound quality concerns, the fixed array shape and my opinion that they're expensive for what they are, it's tough to argue with the fact that they're reasonably simple to deploy and they make money, and they regularly generate compliments and positive feedback from clients.
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Guy Graham

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Whilst every implementation I've seen of these JBLs (and also the similar QSC boxes) had them arrayed vertically - I assumed they were designed like a budget L-Acoustics ARCs-type box, ie they could be arrayed both horizontally and vertically.

A brief look at the JBL website would suggest these particular boxes are only designed to array vertically however - is that correct? 

Whilst they don't have such a controlled dispersion pattern (in the horizontal plane when oriented as normal) as any of the ARCs range, would a horizontal array of VRX work (given the correct rigging) or would there be too much unpleasant inter-cabinet interference on the horizontal plane in such a configuration?

If they did work as per the latter description, it would allow the OP to use more boxes as they wanted to - albeit via a different method.
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Ray Aberle

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Whilst every implementation I've seen of these JBLs (and also the similar QSC boxes) had them arrayed vertically - I assumed they were designed like a budget L-Acoustics ARCs-type box, ie they could be arrayed both horizontally and vertically.

A brief look at the JBL website would suggest these particular boxes are only designed to array vertically however - is that correct? 

Whilst they don't have such a controlled dispersion pattern (in the horizontal plane when oriented as normal) as any of the ARCs range, would a horizontal array of VRX work (given the correct rigging) or would there be too much unpleasant inter-cabinet interference on the horizontal plane in such a configuration?

If they did work as per the latter description, it would allow the OP to use more boxes as they wanted to - albeit via a different method.

Yeah, a lack of rigging abilities to put VRX on their sides (not withstanding the clowns that spanset to handles or whatever) makes this impossible. They do have 15░ vertical/110░ horizontal per box, so yeah, if they were on their side... you would have 110░ vertical and (number of boxes times 15░) horizontal, but I've never tried it. :)

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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Tim Weaver

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I had to turn down a provider just recently because they were trying to put up 4/side vrx rig for an outdoor gig with at least a thousand punters.

The biggest problem with vrx is the people that buy them, then think they can provide a "line array" for shows which are clearly out of their league.
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Jay Barracato

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But the nice thing is transport. Just hook together 12 and roll the circle where ever you want.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

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Jay Barracato

Ray Aberle

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But the nice thing is transport. Just hook together 12 and roll the circle where ever you want.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

They're 15░ each, so you need 24 to get a full 360░ circle, like the U2 360 Tour...
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Kelcema Audio
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Matthew Knischewsky

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I had to turn down a provider just recently because they were trying to put up 4/side vrx rig for an outdoor gig with at least a thousand punters.

The biggest problem with vrx is the people that buy them, then think they can provide a "line array" for shows which are clearly out of their league.

It's the product's fault the people don't know what they're doing?  ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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