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Author Topic: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles  (Read 19210 times)

Scott Helmke

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 05:11:21 pm »

Halo purchases should not be regarded/depreciated as mere capital items, but as marketing tools, used to attract new business, keep current clients, and train staff.

 "Line-iteming" these products to a crude accounting structure devalues their essential need for any ongoing and progressive  enterprise.

The grocery store people call it a "loss leader" - something you're going to lose money on, but which attracts customers who will also buy profitable items.
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Kyle Van Sandt

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2015, 12:21:00 am »

BUT...
Perhaps an analog rig that has stuff taped off may be preferable to a digital console that does not function.

I had an issue this last weekend with a new-ish Yamaha CL5 which clearly has some sort of loose or otherwise problematic connections inside. When it would finish booting up, the handles on the surface were all non-functional. They did not even light up. Several times it would not finish booting up.

Anyway, I was thankful to have a backup console on hand so we did not have to run monitors from FoH. That little X32 made itself extremely worthwhile to schlep along to the gig.

Ever seen an analog Midas console have its automation section die?  Takes the whole desk's routing down... auxes, VCA's, everything.  The old analog desks did have single points of failure as well.  One of the reasons we took that Heritage out of service was due to a huge amount of corrosion in the automation section. 

Lighting people have been carrying backup desks since the dawn of time.  Having that X32 in the back of the trailer or under the bus is not out of the question. 

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Kyle Van Sandt
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2015, 12:34:09 am »

Is that really where the market is for large consoles? I.e., nearly valueless.

Two of the festivals I'm doing this summer requested NO DIGITAL BOARD.  They want an analog console so the bands' sound engineer can take over "on the fly" without a having to learn a new GUI and menu system in the 15 minute changeover.

I contemplated selling (I have APB Spectra T48 and Yamaha IM8-40) and just renting for these rare cases someone wants analog.  Then I thought to myself:  yes they are close to worthless, but am I even going to be able to RENT a decent analog board locally?

John R.

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Ray Aberle

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2015, 09:07:37 am »

Two of the festivals I'm doing this summer requested NO DIGITAL BOARD.  They want an analog console so the bands' sound engineer can take over "on the fly" without a having to learn a new GUI and menu system in the 15 minute changeover.

I contemplated selling (I have APB Spectra T48 and Yamaha IM8-40) and just renting for these rare cases someone wants analog.  Then I thought to myself:  yes they are close to worthless, but am I even going to be able to RENT a decent analog board locally?

John R.

Yeah, same deal, having this discussion now with a BE; they're doing a show at a small club in Seattle (think 500pax probably max) in June. The only digital board he's willing to have is a 5D because that's what he knows, otherwise he wants something analog so he can do his job most effectively. Same reason given- he doesn't want to sit down and suddenly have to learn a new console. The club doesn't have room for a 5D at the imaginary mix position (translation: the ONLY way we get a mix position is by killing audience area...) so a small analog board is going to have to suffice.

-Ray
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Brian Jojade

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2015, 11:10:23 am »

Two of the festivals I'm doing this summer requested NO DIGITAL BOARD.  They want an analog console so the bands' sound engineer can take over "on the fly" without a having to learn a new GUI and menu system in the 15 minute changeover.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  Yes, knowing the ins and outs of every digital board may be daunting, but knowing enough to mix equivalent to what an analog board offers you shouldn't take more than a few minutes on most desks.  If you've got a lot of outboard, taking the time to figure out how all of that's patched would take just as long, if not longer to get familiar with.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2015, 11:54:03 am »

The customer is always right. If it's so easy maybe station a junior guy at the digital mixer to hold his hands.

JR
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Ray Aberle

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2015, 12:48:48 pm »

Too many people dumping and more used consoles are out in the market value depreciates further. Price of X32, Soundcraft expression Si, QU series and all are dirt cheap and everyone can easily purchase a backup one to swap out on the spot if something goes wrong.

Welcome to the forums! Would you mind jumping into your profile and updating your Display Name to be your Real, Full Name, as required to participate on here?

Thanks!

-Ray
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dave briar

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2015, 02:14:52 pm »

Yeah, same deal, having this discussion now with a BE; they're doing a show at a small club in Seattle (think 500pax probably max) in June. The only digital board he's willing to have is a 5D because that's what he knows, otherwise he wants something analog so he can do his job most effectively. Same reason given- he doesn't want to sit down and suddenly have to learn a new console. The club doesn't have room for a 5D at the imaginary mix position (translation: the ONLY way we get a mix position is by killing audience area...) so a small analog board is going to have to suffice.

-Ray
Well the customer may always be right but I'd suggest this BE is going to find it harder and harder to find sound companies with analog decks going forward.  Time to join the 21'st century yes?

   ..dave
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2015, 02:23:23 pm »

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  Yes, knowing the ins and outs of every digital board may be daunting, but knowing enough to mix equivalent to what an analog board offers you shouldn't take more than a few minutes on most desks.  If you've got a lot of outboard, taking the time to figure out how all of that's patched would take just as long, if not longer to get familiar with.

Yep.  Part of my job as SE is helping the BE with the desk and any processing.  If you'd never used a Heritage 3000 or PM4000, it's my job to help you, same as if you were on an unfamiliar digital mixer.

The "daunting" part of any mixer is configuring it, not so much actually mixing the show on it.  If you can't set levels, make EQ decisions, etc because the desk runs on ONES and ZEROs, you probably can't do any better on an analog desk.

One of the best mixes I've heard was done by a guy who claimed to have never mixed on a digital console.  I gave him the 10 minute tour of the desk and stayed with him to answer questions and point to the controls he was looking for.  The same night the worst mix was from the guy who claimed to be a DigiCo SD series guru.

A couple of years ago we were over booked and I thought we might have to send out a 4K and insert rack on a show.  We ended up sending a SC48 and I mentioned the possible analog desk to the BE.  He told me "I've *never* mixed a show on an analog console."  These are more common as we get older and the BEs get younger....
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 02:29:02 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 04:58:18 pm »

Too many people dumping and more used consoles are out in the market value depreciates further. Price of X32, Soundcraft expression Si, QU series and all are dirt cheap and everyone can easily purchase a backup one to swap out on the spot if something goes wrong.

Read the rules, fix your display name.

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Re: The Value of Large-Format Analog Consoles
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 04:58:18 pm »


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