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[Richard Turner]

I know I saw a chart somewhere a few years back but between 1980 and 2010 for consumer grade fridge and small deep freeze the improvements in energy efficiency  versus the initial cost of the middle of the road unit showed it actually cost more money to keep running anything over 6 years old then to move to a new unit. It also made more economic sense to replace it than repair it.

The math seemed flawed from the first blush but seemed sound enough when I researched further it made sense.  at 3.5-4 yrs old most appliances would still fetch decent money on kijiji/craigslist then buy up to the more efficient offerings.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I suspect the low emphasis on longevity may be because nobody expects appliances 30 years from now to remotely resemble today's offerings, so why make them run longer than anybody wants them to.

I recall the old refers from the 50s that just would not die...

Pardon my cynicism, but if you make a fridge that will last 30 years, you won't sell a fridge to that customer for another 30 years. But if you make it last just longer than the warranty period, then you'll sell a fridge every few years.

Sure, if you make a quality product, discerning people will buy it. But the bulk of the market seems to shop price first, features second, quality third. If your competition is building to price while you're building to quality, it makes it really, really tough to stay in business. Add to that national big-box retailers that say "build me a fridge I can sell for $799 and I'll buy 10,000 of them" you have a potential sale that's really hard to turn down.

It makes it really hard for those of us who are willing to pay more for quality and longevity to find those products.

* * * * *

I don't consider this ethical, but some people will buy a used, old, inefficient appliance from a craigslist seller for $50, then turn around and buy a new one and get the $150 utility company "energy efficiency incentive" rebate for replacing an old appliance.

[Lyle Williams]

Miele   http://www.miele.co.uk/

Steve.

I have a house full of Miele.  While good, they aren't perfect.

The washing machine has software bugs that stop it drawing detergent in during some cycle types.  You can work around that by programming an identical cycle as a user-defined one, then the problem doesn't happen.  Workable, but not something that should happen at this price point.

My favorite "feature" is with our Miele microwave.  A $3000 microwave which seemed to have a very gentle defrost function.  It turns out that when you set the microwave to defrost, it actually does nothing.  No it isn't broken, it is documented to "work" that way in the manual.  $3000 defrost is identical to leaving the frozen item on the bench.

[Jonathan Johnson]

The washing machine has software bugs that stop it drawing detergent in during some cycle types.  You can work around that by programming an identical cycle as a user-defined one, then the problem doesn't happen.  Workable, but not something that should happen at this price point.

There's something to be said for analog. A mechanical time switch might not give many wash options, but it does the job faithfully. A mechanical thermostat in the fridge might not send you a text reminding you to buy milk, but it's pretty much bug-free. (Edit: the electronic controls are probably cheaper to manufacture than the mechanical controls, that's probably why they use them.)

A friend has a fridge that's only a couple of years old, and already the "oh look! it's blue!" LED indicators have failed. He says he wish they would have used red or green LEDs, which have proven to be much more reliable than the blue LEDs.

I like to avoid unnecessary complication with appliances -- complication correlates with unreliability. I'd much rather have a range with a mechanical thermostat and timer, but they don't seem to make them anymore. As for microwave ovens, I'll bet most people would get by just fine with one that has a high-medium-low knob and a mechanical timer. Only a few home chefs I know actually do more programming than enter the temperature & time.


Edit: P.S. -- I'm not an old luddite, there's definitely a place for technology; I think that our lives are improved by most technological advances (and by technology I mean everything from two-ply toilet paper to energy efficient motors to mobile apps) when they are applied wisely. I don't want to go back to the days of outdoor plumbing and the Sears catalog. I'm just saying that just because you can doesn't mean you should... new isn't always best.

[Richard Turner]

Pardon my cynicism, but if you make a fridge that will last 30 years, you won't sell a fridge to that customer for another 30 years. But if you make it last just longer than the warranty period, then you'll sell a fridge every few years.

Sure, if you make a quality product, discerning people will buy it. But the bulk of the market seems to shop price first, features second, quality third. If your competition is building to price while you're building to quality, it makes it really, really tough to stay in business. Add to that national big-box retailers that say "build me a fridge I can sell for $799 and I'll buy 10,000 of them" you have a potential sale that's really hard to turn down.

It makes it really hard for those of us who are willing to pay more for quality and longevity to find those products.

* * * * *

I don't consider this ethical, but some people will buy a used, old, inefficient appliance from a craigslist seller for $50, then turn around and buy a new one and get the $150 utility company "energy efficiency incentive" rebate for replacing an old appliance.

There are still 1920's era monitor top fridges out there in working condition,,,,, is 95 years enough longevity?  then again they were using CR4 (Sulphur Dioxide) as refridgerant... not a good ideal to be in close proximity if it has a leakdown.....


also for your dishwasher you can buy TSP (trisodium phosphate) in the paint section of your local hardware store, a little goes a loooooong way and fisherman everywhere will hate you for it but those dishes will be sparkling clean.

[Charlie Zureki]

If you replace your appliances every few decades, even a mainstream middle of the road model might impress you with the technology advances in the last 20-30 years.

I suspect the low emphasis on longevity may be because nobody expects appliances 30 years from now to remotely resemble today's offerings, so why make them run longer than anybody wants them to.

I recall the old refers from the 50s that just would not die...

JR

   +1

 And, there are companies out there that refurbish old appliances and make them look and work like new models.   Those old refrigerators had heavy copper coils and hearty compressors. I'm sure there's many still in use today.

 Hammer

[John Roberts {JR}]

Sure, if you make a quality product, discerning people will buy it. But the bulk of the market seems to shop price first, features second, quality third. If your competition is building to price while you're building to quality, it makes it really, really tough to stay in business. Add to that national big-box retailers that say "build me a fridge I can sell for $799 and I'll buy 10,000 of them" you have a potential sale that's really hard to turn down.

"Quality" there is great deal of misunderstanding about what "quality" is or means wrt products. Some think it refers to high feature content, but in fact it means freedom from flaws. Some consider a missing feature a flaw but it isn't. The cheapest offering can be high quality if it does exactly what it is supposed to do, all the time every time.

There's something to be said for analog. A mechanical time switch might not give many wash options, but it does the job faithfully. A mechanical thermostat in the fridge might not send you a text reminding you to buy milk, but it's pretty much bug-free. (Edit: the electronic controls are probably cheaper to manufacture than the mechanical controls, that's probably why they use them.)

I've seen mechanical timers fail, and since going over to the dark (digital) side, I can not imagine a product design that does not use computer power to make smarter decisions.

A friend has a fridge that's only a couple of years old, and already the "oh look! it's blue!" LED indicators have failed. He says he wish they would have used red or green LEDs, which have proven to be much more reliable than the blue LEDs.

In a little LAB coincidence, my new Whirlpool dishwasher lost it's first blue LED almost immediately, several weeks later it lost the second blue LED . It still works and I am pleased with everything but lack of a few LEDs.

FWIW I took it apart and could not find an obvious bad solder connection, and the working LEDs measured similar to the dark ones so I expect a bad solder connect somewhere deep in the board. It is coming up on 2 months since my customer service contact, and the local repair guy tells me the replacement PCB is still on backorder. So far the washer still works fine, but I may take it apart again and dig a little deeper into the control board if it gets any worse. Probably marginal solder joint(s) on a processor pin or LED driver latch. As long as it is still operating, and I have better things to do I am willing to wait, but the clock is ticking. I can imagine them having a bad production run of control boards in the field, making replacements scarce, but they can push a run of control boards through in less than several months. Of course some factory people would not be enthusiastic about the expense, so waiting for the nest full production run, to grab control boards for service..

I believe I can fix it given enough bench time, but without a schematic and tiny SMD technology it isn't trivial. I already tried the easy things (re soldering the subject LEDs). 

I like to avoid unnecessary complication with appliances -- complication correlates with unreliability. I'd much rather have a range with a mechanical thermostat and timer, but they don't seem to make them anymore. As for microwave ovens, I'll bet most people would get by just fine with one that has a high-medium-low knob and a mechanical timer. Only a few home chefs I know actually do more programming than enter the temperature & time.

The mechanical thermostat on my in wall electric heaters (old house) were tragically inaccurate... heating the room too warm in moderate weather and not warm enough in cold weather. I replaced the system with a modern baseboard heater and smart programmable thermostat. The improved temperature management is noticeable  (generally +/- 1') and the programmable feature saves a lot of electricity not heating the room when I am not using it.

The thermostat inside my old oven is not accurate, but I work around it for now (I'm cheap).

Edit: P.S. -- I'm not an old luddite, there's definitely a place for technology; I think that our lives are improved by most technological advances (and by technology I mean everything from two-ply toilet paper to energy efficient motors to mobile apps) when they are applied wisely. I don't want to go back to the days of outdoor plumbing and the Sears catalog. I'm just saying that just because you can doesn't mean you should... new isn't always best.

 

I don't embrace new technology just for the sake of newness, but the advances in product technology amaze even me sometimes.

JR

[Rob Spence]

Several years ago I replaced a 30+ year old GE side by side with a new GE top of the line model. After 3 years it had a failure and 5 service visits had only made it worse.
I bought a Samsung and aside from one front panel light being out, works great and seems to keep food forever. Oh, GE offered to give me a 10% discount on a replacement. Ya right.

I really, ok REALLY, like my Bosch dishwasher. 500 series. Super quiet. I can't see laying hundreds more for the next up series to save 2dB.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Bob Faulkner]

Great info guys.  Thanks for sharing your experiences.  It's the bells and whistles I have no interest in; it just needs to freakn' work..

Looks like Bosch is near the top of my list...

Many thanks for all the input,
Bob

[Stephen Swaffer]

When I bought my house there was a 40+ year old chest freezer in the basement-a 25 year old remodel had made removal impossible.  When the basement flooded I had a friend in refrigeration replace the compressor-he commented that there were no service valves-the freezer had never been serviced.  Prior to the flood it worked great.  It would seem that IF manufacturing was still done to the same quality standards, then environmental damage from leaking refrigerants would be a very small concern. 

+1 on the Bosch-the one oddball appliance I bought at the time was a Bosch dishwasher-given its performance I should have gone all Bosch.

[ProSoundWeb Community]