ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?  (Read 16804 times)

Bill Hornibrook

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2015, 02:42:50 pm »

Much of the bass in J-pop and K-pop music is below 20Hz nowadays. Not just the spectral hash from a kick drum, but the fundamental bass notes in the music.

Could you list specific Japanese and Korean tracks that do this? I'd like to take a listen.

As a DJ here in the US, low "B" is the lowest I've heard tracks go. If the subs can cleanly hit 30.8Hz my night is covered.

You are right - it's easy to determine the bottom end of today's tracks because in almost all cases it's the track's lowest synth note -  and almost always loaded with fundamental.
Logged

Mark ☻Bass Pig☻ Weiss

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Subsonic Fanatic/Amp Repair Specialist
    • Amplifier Experts
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2015, 09:50:38 pm »

Could you list specific Japanese and Korean tracks that do this? I'd like to take a listen.

As a DJ here in the US, low "B" is the lowest I've heard tracks go. If the subs can cleanly hit 30.8Hz my night is covered.

You are right - it's easy to determine the bottom end of today's tracks because in almost all cases it's the track's lowest synth note -  and almost always loaded with fundamental.


Some songs I can think of off the top of my head....


Takeshi Kusao  "everything to me" from "Take a Shine-Under the Starry Night" has a lot of energy around 14-20Hz.


TOMO SAKURAI  "ADVENTURE LIFE" from the album "OVERLAP" has alternating 21 and 17Hz bass notes and actually gets down to 16Hz during a bridge melody. Commercial subs just bottom out if a HPF isn't inserted!


Kenji Kawaii's main theme to the recent film "The Sky Crawlers" has a dominant percussion with a spectral peak at 15Hz. Again, flap, flap, flap, on commercial subs.


And LiSA's "Crossing Field" from the recent "Sword Art Online" series has a notable LF transient that is broadband from 14-24Hz and very high amplitude. Woofer damage on all but the stoutest systems. It happens :52 into the song, but doesn't seem to be musically related, though it recurs on a refrain later in the song.


From "Save Your Last Dance For Me" a Korean TV series, is  "Geu Nyuh Ga Ah Ni Myun Ahn Dwae Neun Guh Jyo" sung by Ji Hye. It has really over the top intense bass in the 24-29Hz range.
I could name dozens more, but these should provide some interesting listening if you can find the original CDs.




Back to the 2218 Neo, I too was suspicious of the dimensions, and particularly the skiver rolls/edge surround. But I've submitted my request for a demo unit, and it will likely be here in a week or so. I'll test it the usual "Bass Pig" way, with REW, an SPL meter, and my trusty Fluke 867B across the terminals.

Interesting point about the 68-odd ohms at 30Hz.. if driven by a tube amplifier, say, a push pull pair of 3CX1500A's with 4kV on the plates and zero feedback, it's conceivable that a sweep like that would make sense. I would really like to know if they used the same testing methods as they did for the ferrite version of this driver, whose response looks more like that of a 180B and other similar drivers. Mark did tell me that the 8.6 cu ft cabinet had a port size that was carefully tweaked to get this result.

Testing it will reveal a lot of interesting data. I'm looking forward to this experiment. Just hope my back heals in time for dealing with moving this stuff. I'm getting around with a cane at the moment.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 09:53:30 pm by Mark ☻Bass Pig☻ Weiss »
Logged
Take care,

Mark & Mary Ann Weiss

http://www.MWHDvideo.com
http://www.basspig.com The Bass Pig's Lair
http://www.ampexperts.com

George Friedman-Jimenez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 492
  • NYC
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 01:09:46 pm »

Subwoofers, back pain and canes are definitely correlated. BTDT. We are as interested in interesting data as you are but don't pay too high a price for the data. Especially just to prove that the manufacturer's specs like 4" Xmax are bogus. Take care of your back, see a doctor (again) if you need to, get some physical therapy and follow the PT's advice regarding rehab exercises before doing any lifting. Re-injuring your back by going back to heavy lifting too soon can really set you back further.
Can you tell us any favorite tracks with musically interesting ultra LF (ie not just droning) that we can access easily via streaming audio or video like YouTube? I would like to see how my homemade studio sub sounds down that low, beyond the sine wave test tracks I used to align the system.
Logged

Mark ☻Bass Pig☻ Weiss

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Subsonic Fanatic/Amp Repair Specialist
    • Amplifier Experts
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2015, 04:06:26 pm »

Subwoofers, back pain and canes are definitely correlated. BTDT. We are as interested in interesting data as you are but don't pay too high a price for the data. Especially just to prove that the manufacturer's specs like 4" Xmax are bogus. Take care of your back, see a doctor (again) if you need to, get some physical therapy and follow the PT's advice regarding rehab exercises before doing any lifting. Re-injuring your back by going back to heavy lifting too soon can really set you back further.
Can you tell us any favorite tracks with musically interesting ultra LF (ie not just droning) that we can access easily via streaming audio or video like YouTube? I would like to see how my homemade studio sub sounds down that low, beyond the sine wave test tracks I used to align the system.




Back problems are thanks to the person driving the SUV behind me, who was too busy texting on her cellphone to see that traffic had stopped ahead. This was the day before Thanksgiving, 2007. I spent 6 months in physical therapy after I got out of the hospital.
I don't have the luxury of taking it easy. I'm almost done with a decade long rebuilding of the roof structure and much of the exterior walls of my house (rot, termites, carpenter ants). Pressure treated 3/4 sheathing weighs 116lbs according to the American Plywood standards info. I have to carry those up a ladder onto the roof. That, and PT 2x12s (that's done, thank goodness!) 16' long and weighing 160lbs each.
Believe me, lifting a woofer is far less of my worries!


The 4" figure is Xmech, not Xmax. I will be doing a free air test to check that.


As for easily available test tracks, there's always Bassotronics'  "Bass, I Love You", which, if I recall, has frequencies to 7Hz in it. A Google search should take you to a downloadable MP3 pretty easily.
The other stuff is from Japan and Korea. Harder to find, but you may find some of it on Youtube, though no certainty what version.
Logged
Take care,

Mark & Mary Ann Weiss

http://www.MWHDvideo.com
http://www.basspig.com The Bass Pig's Lair
http://www.ampexperts.com

Spenser Hamilton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 665
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2015, 06:40:01 pm »

Keep in mind YouTube and low quality MP3s will likely clip that ultra-low LF right out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
Technical Director - Chatham Capitol Theatre/Kiwanis Theatre

George Friedman-Jimenez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 492
  • NYC
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2015, 09:19:31 pm »

Ouch! Hope your back continues to get better.
I can't find a wav file download of that Bassotronics song. What quality MP3 do I need to get to accurately reproduce the 7 Hz notes?
Logged

Mark ☻Bass Pig☻ Weiss

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Subsonic Fanatic/Amp Repair Specialist
    • Amplifier Experts
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2015, 03:05:28 am »

Ouch! Hope your back continues to get better.
I can't find a wav file download of that Bassotronics song. What quality MP3 do I need to get to accurately reproduce the 7 Hz notes?


Lossy compression mainly affects fast transients and high frequency content. Bass comes through pretty well. The upper cutoff frequency for 128kbps is 16KHz. 320kbps with the extended frequency option can go to 20Khz. As far as I know, bass is unaffected.


Thanks.. my back is serviceable, if I use the cane I can get around. Can't lift anything heavy yet. My shop is full of amplifiers and receivers to repair and I'm getting a little ansy about the backlog, so did some bench work today. So far, so good. Mornings are risky. When I first get up, the first few hours are the dangerous ones. A slight leaning forward to pick up a dish is all it took to set off a cramp that became debilitating. I've got a roof to finish repairing this summer, and I'm a little concerned about how I'm going to get there from here!
Logged
Take care,

Mark & Mary Ann Weiss

http://www.MWHDvideo.com
http://www.basspig.com The Bass Pig's Lair
http://www.ampexperts.com

Lee Buckalew

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
  • St. Louis, MO area
    • Pro Sound Advice, Inc.
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2015, 07:23:39 am »


Lossy compression mainly affects fast transients and high frequency content. Bass comes through pretty well. The upper cutoff frequency for 128kbps is 16KHz. 320kbps with the extended frequency option can go to 20Khz. As far as I know, bass is unaffected.

Bass is definitely NOT unaffected.  Each codec type does different things to the same piece of music.  One codec at 320kbps is not the same as another at 320kbps.  All codecs use data compression and all cause artifacts to be created throughout the frequency range of the original source.  Some codecs are less noticeable in their affect on certain styles of music.  You cannot just rip CD audio through any codec and have it sound like the original.  You actually have to mix and master the original differently for an MP3 than you do for CD.  In fact, you have to mix and master separately for each codec and rate that will be used if you want it to have the same sound as the uncompressed mix.

Lee
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 06:25:09 am by Lee Buckalew »
Logged
Lee Buckalew
Pro Sound Advice, Inc.

George Friedman-Jimenez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 492
  • NYC
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2015, 09:28:47 pm »

Since you are already in medical care and have been evaluated to be sure they are not missing more complicated back pathology, I can strongly recommend a book called Treat Your Own Back, 9th Ed by Robin McKenzie. This is essentially a few well-tested exercises that are very likely to help back pain in most people. I recommend it to my patients and have also used it myself with very good results. I mentioned it to my back physical therapist who was giving me some of the same exercises and she said that she used it for her back. Highly recommended.
http://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Own-Back-802-9/dp/0987650408

I find MP3s most unsatisfying so I looked around some more and found that Beatport Pro sells Bass I love you as a wav or aiff file for an extra $0.75, so I splurged a grand total of $2.24 on it. Now I don't have to worry about MP3 distortion.
https://pro.beatport.com/track/bass-i-love-you-original-mix/3288956

And now back to the topic of the thread?
Logged

Cailen Waddell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1428
Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2015, 10:39:14 pm »

My wife is PT - and wants me to be clear that she is not offering medical advice - but she is a big believer in the mcKenzie technique.  It has helped her back issues and has had success with her patients too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Radian Audio Engineering's 2218 Neo Driver: Absurd Claims or Not?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2015, 10:39:14 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.119 seconds with 24 queries.