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Author Topic: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?  (Read 12745 times)

Fred Dorado

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My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« on: April 13, 2015, 03:19:26 am »

I am at an older church built in 1931 - It was not designed for full band with drums, bass, electric etc, but for a choir.

We run full band most of the time, very unlikely we will go to in ear monitors, so we have 6 floor monitors. As you can guess the stage gets very loud. The electric guitar, bass and drums are all the back line and though our musicians do pretty good, but still very hot stage.

I was thinking that one of the simplest things that might have an impact is some acoustic paneling or heavy stage curtains.

I have searched and there are premade panels, make you own and everything in between of every kind of material.

The electric guitar, high hat and snare seem to get the most boost (and ring) since they are hot on stage and then we get whatever is coming out of the monitors. Bass isn't too much of a problem, except some shaking when it gets turned up.

What are the best options for taming the stage?
What panels actually work and don't?
Are there good diy options that would work and save money?
Any specific areas I should try and focus on?

I have been looking at new and used panels, hoping to find something on craigslist and have seen a few, but want to make sure that I get the right stuff.

here is what it looks like



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Steve M Smith

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2015, 03:50:00 am »

Looks like you are playing inside a large Martin B115!   http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/martin-audio-b115-176558.jpg

My advice would be to try to reduce your on stage levels.  Start with nothing... well, perhaps just vocals in the monitors then only add what you need.  When you start turning something up because it can't be heard due to the volume of something else, you end up in 'everything louder than everything else' territory.

(and lose those music stands - I hate the sight of them!!).


Steve.
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 05:48:55 am »

Looks like you are playing inside a large Martin B115!   http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/martin-audio-b115-176558.jpg

My advice would be to try to reduce your on stage levels.  Start with nothing... well, perhaps just vocals in the monitors then only add what you need.  When you start turning something up because it can't be heard due to the volume of something else, you end up in 'everything louder than everything else' territory.

(and lose those music stands - I hate the sight of them!!).


Steve.

Do what Steve mentioned and...get another (identical) monitor so the two guitar players up front each have one.  As it stands now neither will hear that single monitor that is firing between them until it is REALLY loud. 


Lee
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Scott Wagner

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 07:54:09 am »

Remember, this a sound reinforcement situation. The only things that get into the mix are things that are too quiet. Most likely, the snare will be your baseline - build your mix around the un-amplified snare level. If that's still too loud, there are a few things to try, but they will only result in minor improvements - unless you can convince the drummer to play E-drums.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2015, 08:10:10 am »

Deaden the stage with acoustical treatment. That should help keep the sound on the stage more.

Drum shield with top. This will let everyone else turn down.

Teleprompter. So you can get rid of the music stands.

What's the rest of the room like?
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 08:56:01 am »

I note that thee is a platform in front of the one you are in.  Have you tried setting up there?  Perhaps try it for a practice.  You rule out IEMs but we are in a old church with a chior horn like yours and the best thing we ever did for the quality of our sound was go to IEMs.  It can be done, and it can be done at low cost.

Frank
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Jeff Carter

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2015, 09:56:58 am »

Floor monitors aren't very directional at low frequency, so a lot of the LF from the monitors will spill off the stage into the house. Rolling off some of the LF with EQ can really help reduce this.

I don't hate music stands as much as some of the other posters (it's a worship service so the band's not really the focus anyway), but do make sure that they're not positioned in between musicians and their monitors. The ones I can see in the photo look good in that respect.

Drum shields isolate drummers, which in my experience makes them tend to hit even harder. I view them as the weapon of last resort if you absolutely can't get drummers to play to a level that matches the rest of the band ("don't make me put you in the box....").
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2015, 09:59:38 am »

In your situation, IEM's only help if the guitar players are willing to give up their amps. Doesn't make since to have everyone on in-ears and still have amps on stage. Or at least put their amps back stage.

I wouldn't get IEM's unless you are willing to spend the money to get a "good" quality in-ear system and know how to set it up and run it.  Too many churches purchase low quality and have bad experiences.

I often hear. "We tried IEM's and didn't like them."
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Fred Dorado

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2015, 11:25:01 am »

Thanks - a couple of responses

I think my best bet is to do as Jamin Lynch said and deaden the stage. I am trying to find out what acoustical treatment to go with and how to set it up.

We do have different monitor feeds and try and keep as much out of the monitors as possible and that was a big help from having two channels with several monitors. But it still gets a bit crazy.

We don't setup on the front platform unless it is something special with the kids or choir (no choir anymore). We usually leave this open and this is where the preaching and other communication happens from.

The two guitars up front happened to be special - our usual setup is  up front: keys with vocals,1-2 vocals only , acoustic with vocals. Back room is electric with vocals, bass and drums.

I could probably start pushing in ears, problem is we have two different bands - English and Spanish - I know a couple of people would probably be ok, but not sure about the rest.

I am not a fan of the full drum cage and a half size would just reflect sound back to the back wall before it goes out. I will probably do a half one, but need to get the rest of stage tamed first.

Low freq isn't as much of an issue as the rest. We don't have any subs and don't reinforce the bass, so it may help a little.

Here is a pic from the back of the room





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Jamin Lynch

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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 12:33:00 pm »

Only deadening the stage may not "cure" the problem, but it sure won't hurt.
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Re: My Stage is a great big horn - hw to tame it?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 12:33:00 pm »


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