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Author Topic: Current powered 12" tops  (Read 16373 times)

Scott Bolt

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2015, 05:26:50 pm »

I run mine the same way Scott (DSR12, JBL PRX718XLF) I never tried using the HPF in the DSR's. I like how they sound together.

Hi Debbie,

About how much do you have your inputs sensitivity set to on your DSR's vs your XLF's?  Have you run into the limit lights on either yet?  I think that the only times I have limit lights are outdoors, or larger indoors and it is usually the subs that blink first ..... although for some reason when we play "Aeroplane" by RHP, we clip the tops just a little on some of the slap bass hits while the subs don't seem to clip on that particular song.

I do agree though, that running the speakers this way gives a very pleasing result.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2015, 06:31:39 pm »

Are there enough low mids on the DSR12's to run aux fed subs outdoors?  Smalish gig using 1-18 subs.  Less stuff in the signal path is always better.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2015, 08:21:49 pm »

Are there enough low mids on the DSR12's to run aux fed subs outdoors?  Smalish gig using 1-18 subs.  Less stuff in the signal path is always better.
I am not sure I understand your question entirely.  Are you saying you are doing an outside gig with a single 18" sub and just a DSR112 .... or even a pair of DSR112's .... or are you saying you are using between 1 and 18 subs?

I am guessing the former.

The proper way to do aux fed subs would still have a cross-over involved in it IMHO. Using the previous example of a DSR112 and a PRX718XLF, you could provide a full range signal to the sub, but the DSR112 top would need a seperate feed that contained only >90Hz content.

Alternately, you could engage the HPF on the DSR112 instead of using a cross-over.  You could then send full range signals to both the sub(s) and the top(s).... with the understanding that with this particular set of powered speakers, you would lose much of the content between 90 and 120Hz.

The better option would be a cross-over.
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Steve Garris

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2015, 09:29:46 pm »

Are there enough low mids on the DSR12's to run aux fed subs outdoors?  Smalish gig using 1-18 subs.  Less stuff in the signal path is always better.

I think he's saying he'll be using a pair of tops over a pair of single-18 sub's.

If so, this will work well outdoors but not at huge volume and you'll be pushing the sub's hard.
I would run the sub's aux fed, and the tops on the full range setting.

I've done exactly this with my PRX sub's, and the PRX-115 tops as well as the DSR112's.
My take is that the DSR's are louder, but required more EQ to get smooth sounding in the upper frequencies.
My PRX115's are smooth as glass when run almost flat. The DSR's are killer monitors though!
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2015, 09:41:53 pm »

Hi Debbie,

About how much do you have your inputs sensitivity set to on your DSR's vs your XLF's?  Have you run into the limit lights on either yet?  I think that the only times I have limit lights are outdoors, or larger indoors and it is usually the subs that blink first ..... although for some reason when we play "Aeroplane" by RHP, we clip the tops just a little on some of the slap bass hits while the subs don't seem to clip on that particular song.

I do agree though, that running the speakers this way gives a very pleasing result.

Hey Scott,

I start the subs at 3.00 and the tops at 12.00. Then maybe a little more on the subs if needed. I've never experienced clipping on either but for the larger venues and outside, I use the SRX system and add the 2 PRX718's on aux to supplement - it works like a charm!!
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Steve Garris

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2015, 12:56:29 am »

Hey Scott,

I start the subs at 3.00 and the tops at 12.00. Then maybe a little more on the subs if needed. I've never experienced clipping on either but for the larger venues and outside, I use the SRX system and add the 2 PRX718's on aux to supplement - it works like a charm!!

Exactly the same as I do as well. PRX615 or DSR112 over PRX618xlf
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2015, 01:36:41 pm »

Steve, you've got it.  A pair of DSR12s over a pair of single 18 subs.  Vocals, guitars and such run full range though the tops with bass, kick, keys, etc run out an aux bus to the subs low passed at 100 or so.  Concern is that strong male vocals would have enough beef through only the DSRs.  This is a small park gig where there won't be much bass guitar leakage into the vocal mics.

The subs are Cubo 18's with 18-Sound LW1400 drivers running off a Crest Pro 9200.  Not quite TH18s but more than standard bass reflex single 18s.  I used to have 4 of these drivers in vented boxes and the quasi tapped horns or whatever they are only need two to outrun the previous 4.  There's also an SRX like 60Hz bump that while not high fidelity, gets the kick drum across.  I've also used these in a 300 seat theatre and in a closed well designed space running EDM for a dance company they can get pretty visceral.
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2015, 02:52:41 pm »

Alternately, you could engage the HPF on the DSR112 instead of using a cross-over.  You could then send full range signals to both the sub(s) and the top(s).... with the understanding that with this particular set of powered speakers, you would lose much of the content between 90 and 120Hz.

You're not really going to have as much of a hole as you think.  You might not have any hole at all depending on your levels and your crossover slope(s). The ELECTRICAL crossover of the subs is 90z, but the ACOUSTICAL crossover is the frequency at which the subs and tops meet at the same level.  Most people run their subs quite a bit hotter than the tops.  A 10-20db haystack isn't at all uncommon.  If you're using a 24db/octave crossover, and your subs are 24db hotter than your tops, then the acoustical crossover will actually be a full octave higher than the electrical crossover setting. 

I've attached a screenshot of a crossover I just made in dbx software.  The subs are LPF at 90hz with a BW24.  The tops are HPF at 120hz with a BW24.  There's really no hole at all.  The subs meet the tops just shy of 120hz.  Now of course real world measurements will vary based on the actual response of each speaker, but this just shows you what's actually happening at your crossover point.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2015, 10:31:25 pm »

You're not really going to have as much of a hole as you think.  You might not have any hole at all depending on your levels and your crossover slope(s). The ELECTRICAL crossover of the subs is 90z, but the ACOUSTICAL crossover is the frequency at which the subs and tops meet at the same level.  Most people run their subs quite a bit hotter than the tops.  A 10-20db haystack isn't at all uncommon.  If you're using a 24db/octave crossover, and your subs are 24db hotter than your tops, then the acoustical crossover will actually be a full octave higher than the electrical crossover setting. 

I've attached a screenshot of a crossover I just made in dbx software.  The subs are LPF at 90hz with a BW24.  The tops are HPF at 120hz with a BW24.  There's really no hole at all.  The subs meet the tops just shy of 120hz.  Now of course real world measurements will vary based on the actual response of each speaker, but this just shows you what's actually happening at your crossover point.
Thanks for the info!  It just sounds bad to have a hole I guess ;)
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2015, 10:34:07 pm »

Hey Scott,

I start the subs at 3.00 and the tops at 12.00. Then maybe a little more on the subs if needed. I've never experienced clipping on either but for the larger venues and outside, I use the SRX system and add the 2 PRX718's on aux to supplement - it works like a charm!!

Debbie and Steve,

Mine are at 2 and 11 ;)  Kind of funny we all gravitated to the same relative levels. 
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Re: Current powered 12" tops
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2015, 10:34:07 pm »


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