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Author Topic: Buying TH118's  (Read 22509 times)

Caleb Dueck

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2015, 11:54:19 pm »

To my ears, the DBH is more accurate in the time domain.  It's based on how a folded horn works vs a tapped horn, Ivan or Tom Danley can explain the physics better than I can. 

On level ground, a DBH isn't bad for one guy to move. 

Since it's a folded horn, when used in quantity (4+), the frequency response dip of a folded horn down low "fills in".  Four DBH's together will wake you up.

In our installs, we use DBH subs in some quantity more than any other model.  Second is TH-118.  Even for small projects, the efficiency and extension of a 118 work well, if really small we'll use a smaller amp.
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Frederik RosenkjŠr

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2015, 02:33:49 am »

On level ground, a DBH isn't bad for one guy to move. 


How about laying it down/standing it up, putting it on and off its wheels?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Buying TH118's-reading specs
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2015, 07:55:04 am »

So which "it depends" number are you going to put on the spec sheet?
Here is where I come up with the numbers for the spec sheet.

First I measure the subs outside-free of reflections at a distance of 10M-with an input of 28.3V.

This distance reduces the errors that can come with actually measuring at 1M.  If we did measure at 1M we would come up with HIGHER sensitivity numbers (that look great on a spec sheet and would be "correct"), but I feel the spec sheet should give an accurate representation of how the loudspeaker performs for a large area-not just a test signal/situation.

Once I have the trace I look at it and use MY OPINION of what I FEEL is the "average sensitivity" that "best describes" the performance of the sub (or main) within its intended pass band.

For subs this means below 100hz and often below 80Hz.

Let's say that I choose 100dB as my opinion of the "average".

TO get the -3dB point, I simply go down 3dB (ONLY-NOT +/-3dB which is a 6dB window for "flat", and then ANOTHER 3dB down to get the "so called -3dB" point-like some manufacturers do :(  ), and whatever that freq is we call it the -3dB point.

On some of our products I choose to use -4dB, because of a "ripple" in the response, I feel that the -4dB may give a better overall idea of the actual response.

Again-that is where having the ACTUAL RESPONSE GRAPH and READING IT comes in.  Without it, the person who put the "simple numbers" on the spec sheet can put whatever they want-and don't have to have anything to back it up.

Our numbers are directly traceable to the SHOWN response graph.

Unless of course the IT guys making up the spec sheets make an error on the numbers I give them. :(   Yes it happens.  But we correct them when we find them.

We could claim the maximum peak output as 149dB and still be "correct" because the cabinet WILL produce 149dB peak.  BUT NOT in the intended sub range.

So we would be "giving the correct answer" but NOT to the question you asked. (what is the maximum I can get out of the cabinet)-as you think you wanted.

But this does not stop some manufacturers from putting those numbers on the spec sheets.

THey are not lying-but they CERTAINLY are not telling you the truth-as you would like it (or expect it) to be told.

That is why side by side tests and real world experience with products trumps spec sheets.

It depends on what the spec sheet is for.  I believe it is to provide USEFUL data to the user to help them choose a proper product.

Others believe it is to "put some pretty numbers on it so we can sell more product".

That is the difference between engineering and marketing.  Our spec sheets come from the engineer department, and the marketing guys have NO say so in the numbers-only the "verbage" that describes the product.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2015, 08:02:59 am »

How about laying it down/standing it up, putting it on and off its wheels?
I cna lay the DBH218 down (and get it up) by myself (but it is easier with another person).

PUtting a second DBH218 on top is easier than getting the first one down.

Simply lay it over and push it up..

The TH118s are much easier.  I can stack 3 high by myself.  But again-a second person makes getting the 3rd on e up easier.

But it also takes more of the TH118s to equal the output of the DBH218s.

Overall the TH118s is a more "portable/useful" box for most people
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

David Morison

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2015, 10:40:49 am »

THe 40Hz is incorrect on the "simple specs.  I am not sure where it came from-but I will get the  IT guys to change it.

This is a good example of where the "simple numbers" can not tell the whole story.

My statements are based on what I have measured in a side by side setup.

I don't think I saved the graphs-and this is from memory.

Actually, looking at the graph it does look like 40Hz is the -3dB point (Nominal sensitivity is given as 108dB, entirely consistent with the 50-100Hz part of the graph).
You would only get the lower corner if you go to a -4dB spec for this one (and to be fair, the spec sheet does clearly say -4dB next to the 35Hz figure).
As I haven't heard the box, I can't say how valid that is, of course.
David.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 10:53:40 am by David Morison »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2015, 12:42:13 pm »

Actually, looking at the graph it does look like 40Hz is the -3dB point (Nominal sensitivity is given as 108dB, entirely consistent with the 50-100Hz part of the graph).
You would only get the lower corner if you go to a -4dB spec for this one (and to be fair, the spec sheet does clearly say -4dB next to the 35Hz figure).
As I haven't heard the box, I can't say how valid that is, of course.
David.
And as you can see by looking at the graph (GOOD FOR YOU) that the response gets flat just below 40Hz.

So in this case a -4dB point makes more sense in "trying to describe" the performance in a couple of numbers.

If it just rolled off-then I would have chosen the -3dB number-because -4 would only be a Hz or so lower.

Just relying on the "simple numbers" is like listening to a guitar amp in a music store that has a volume pot in which all of the gain in in the 1st half of the pot.  You never turn it up in the store, and just "assume" that when you take it home it will continue to get louder-which ti doesn't.

But THAT is EXACTLY what the designers were going for-to fool you into buying something when you "hoped" it was something else.

It depends on what is important-selling something that really works and will be around for a long time, or trying to convince somebody that something is good by using "salesmanship".
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

John Rutirasiri

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2015, 04:10:28 pm »

Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

You're doing the right thing.

I have 16 of them but never had to use more than 8 indoor or outdoor.  They do justice with everything from jazz and rock to hip hop and EDM.  Want to hear individual notes and resonance of the bass strings?  Check.  Want to peel paint and shake the building?  Check.  Very low distortion so it's really clean sounding.  Great box for EDM and DJ applications -- punchy and crazy hot from 125Hz to 140Hz.  It just does everything well.

I run four 8-Ohm boxes on one IT12000HD.

Having said that, a few EDM promoters who never of Danley have given me grief for the fact that it has a single 18" instead of dual 18s.  I have lost bids based on that fact.   What they don't know (or care to lsiten) is that one TH118 will run circles around just about any double-18 sub in existence, and in many cases, outruns TWO double-18 boxes. 

Go for it; you will have the best 1-man movable, minivan-transportable sub money can buy and never look back.

If you will be in the Chicagoland area, give me a shout and stop by to listen.

Best,
JR
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Rick Powell

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2015, 12:27:35 am »

Having said that, a few EDM promoters who never of Danley have given me grief for the fact that it has a single 18" instead of dual 18s.  I have lost bids based on that fact.   What they don't know (or care to lsiten) is that one TH118 will run circles around just about any double-18 sub in existence, and in many cases, outruns TWO double-18 boxes. 

Hopefully, EDM providers like Pure Groove, and the events they provide for, will help spread the word and knowledge of what these boxes will do to the EDM market.  There's a whole big pile of Danley boxes down in Miami for Miami Music Festival, including my SM80s that were rented as well as a whole bunch of TH 118s and other subs and top boxes from Danley.  I'd use this event as a reference if this issue comes up for you again.

http://puregroovesystems.com/news-events-2/
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John Rutirasiri

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2015, 01:37:36 pm »

Hopefully, EDM providers like Pure Groove, and the events they provide for, will help spread the word and knowledge of what these boxes will do to the EDM market.  There's a whole big pile of Danley boxes down in Miami for Miami Music Festival, including my SM80s that were rented as well as a whole bunch of TH 118s and other subs and top boxes from Danley.  I'd use this event as a reference if this issue comes up for you again.

http://puregroovesystems.com/news-events-2/

Thanks for the info, Rick.  I've mentioned Pure Groove to promoters.  They are well-known in CA, FL and East Coast, but not the midwest (yet.)

Just my luck that the venue I was doing at SXSW -- with (4) SH46 and (8) TH118 -- got shut down the day before Wiz Khalifa was to perform...

Best,
JR

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Jeffrey Knorr - CobraSound.com

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Re: Buying TH118's
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2015, 10:26:04 am »

I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

Hi Jamin,

We've been happy DSL users and dealers for quite a while now.  I've been lucky to have SH50's, SH46's, SH96HO's and SM80's with TH115's and TH118's pass through our shop.  The TH118's are excellent for portable live sound use.  As has been described in this thread, their output, sound quality, price point, and portability are hard to beat. I don't think that you'll be disappointed with their performance.  We've used them for everything from Bluegrass to EDM and always been thrilled!  We've also sold quite a few boxes (including to other forum members here) which have also been happy with their purchases.  Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help you get exactly what you need.

Thank you,

Jeff
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Re: Buying TH118's
┬ź Reply #39 on: April 02, 2015, 10:26:04 am ┬╗


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