ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?  (Read 3311 times)

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« on: March 22, 2015, 06:52:40 am »

Providing my first gig where the rider requires a dedicated monitor board.  The band is bring their own FOH and Mon engineer. I'm trying to pre-program the show and wire up some racks.   Monitors will be 7 IEMs and 3 wedges.

Who typically controls the preamp gains and phantom?  FOH or Monitors? Is there a defacto standard?

This will effect which cables (short/long) I use at the splitters.  The passive splitters I am using aren't of great quality (all I could find), so I'd prefer to send the straight (non-transformer) channels to FOH.

(Asking the band will be useless, after pestering them for a month I'm still waiting for a revised channel layout and a few other outstanding issues.)
Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

Steve M Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3223
  • Isle of Wight - England
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 07:55:46 am »

If you are using passive splitters then both mixers will have their own gain control (unless I'm missing something).  As for which end supplies phantom - it might as well be both unless your splitters have transformer isolation.

EDIT: Re reading your post, I see you do have transformers!


Steve.
Logged

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 08:09:41 am »

Yep, transformer splitters.  I meant to ask 'who controls phantom'.   I guess its not such a big deal.

Been living in the digital snake world... but for this gig I need to split before my AR2412,
Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3167
  • Toronto
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 08:24:53 am »

Yep, transformer splitters.  I meant to ask 'who controls phantom'.   I guess its not such a big deal.

Been living in the digital snake world... but for this gig I need to split before my AR2412,
It works both ways as long as the phantom source in on the non isolated side of the split.
 Some think it's better from monitors due to the shorter cable length.
Also, the monitor person will know what needs phanton as they are involved at the deck.
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Matthew Knischewsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 361
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 10:16:29 am »

Providing my first gig where the rider requires a dedicated monitor board.  The band is bring their own FOH and Mon engineer. I'm trying to pre-program the show and wire up some racks.   Monitors will be 7 IEMs and 3 wedges.

Who typically controls the preamp gains and phantom?  FOH or Monitors? Is there a defacto standard?

This will effect which cables (short/long) I use at the splitters.  The passive splitters I am using aren't of great quality (all I could find), so I'd prefer to send the straight (non-transformer) channels to FOH.

(Asking the band will be useless, after pestering them for a month I'm still waiting for a revised channel layout and a few other outstanding issues.)

It doesn't really matter. Some would rather have the short DC path from monitors, some would rather have the direct, non transformer feed to FOH. On a festival stage I prefer to have phantom from monitors because communication is faster without having the FOH engineer involved.
Doesn't sound like you're doing a festival, and if you're concerned about the transformers in the split not being of the highest quality, I would send the direct to FOH, transformers to monitors, phantom from FOH.

Matt.

PS there's generally nothing wrong with using a passive, non transformer splitter for up to 3 outputs. You loose the transformer isolation, but with modern equipment and good power distribution it's much less of a concern. I remember reading an article (in the old LAB?) about how poor quality transformers can cause more trouble than they're worth. YYMV.
Logged

James Wright

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 12:20:20 pm »

Relying on the FoH guy to do phantom quickly is a nightmare.
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20516
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 01:05:02 pm »

Relying on the FoH guy to do phantom quickly is a nightmare.

Kind of depends, eh?  I personally prefer for monitor mixerpersons to take care of +48v but most of our splitters are transformer isolated so I've gotten in the habit of assigning it as FOH is usually on the direct side of the split.

With passive splits there have been times when both desks have had phantom switched on with no resulting problems.  I'd not suggest it as common practice but it's not a big deal (presuming all your cables are wired correctly).

I think what matters most is that the FOH and monitor mixerpersons have a PLAN.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 12:15:43 am »

Thanks everyone. It's not a festival so there won't be a need to change phantom after I set the stage.  I certainly see where that would be a challenge, and appreciate the heads up.

I wired up the racks last night with the direct side going to FOH.

Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

Ryan O John

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 128
    • ryanojohn.com
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 11:32:11 am »

Generally I prefer Phantom from Monitors, because if something needs to be changed on stage, he's the guy closest to it, and can see what's happening much more clearly.  He can radio to FOH to mute something, and kill phantom, change a mic, light it back up, and radio up to unmute... 

Simple things
Logged
Ryan John
Product Manager | Avid Live Sound

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 04:19:12 am »

Thanks everyone for the help.

The gig went well.  No surprises, everything worked. I had to make a few changes to the monitor programming that was finally sent to me the morning of the show (routing problems). Only a few unexpected changes from the rider. 

The band ignored my advice to take the 'early flight', then spent 2.5 hours in immigration, showed up at the venue straight from the airport a little after 6PM for 7:00 doors. 

We integrated their 10 channels of IEMs in about 10 minutes (one of a half dozen 'errors'  in the rider, they said 7 IEMS and 3 wedges), moved a few mics around the stage (stage plot was missing a few things), reset the keys and drums, did a quick sound check, and let the audience in from the parking lot about 7:30.  They played 2 hours straight, very high energy.  Had 50% of the audience up dancing in the aisles and pit. 

The FOH engineer wished he had a little more volume.  I didn't have the heart to tell him I had turned down the mains in the DSP about 6db for what I thought was 'loud enough' for the venue and audience.  Setup was so hurried that everyone was just happy that FOH and monitors were actually set up correctly and working and the system sounded good. Apparently that wasn't their experience in the last 3 cities.  The band was happy, I got an unexpected bonus. Based on my conversations with the audience during and after the gig, I made the right choice, it was plenty loud, but a tad light in the subs.

Normally I run FOH for the few tour gigs I do every year. This was the first band to bring their own engineers. It was fun to walk the venue, interact with the crowd, eat some food... very low stress after the show started.  The mix was a little kick-heavy for me, but.... :)
Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Headamp control from FOH or monitors?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 04:19:12 am »


Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.062 seconds with 22 queries.