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[Justin Rygel]

I am considering a console upgrade for our church and I have two questions regarding Yamaha's digital consoles.  I'm looking at the DM1000 specifically.  I would like to have 32 inputs, feed an Aviom system, and feed a full 32 track digital recording system all with the same console (I would use optical splitters on the external preamps).  This brings me to my questions:

1. Can the YGDAI cards pass input and output simultaneously?  (I want to use the MY16-AT for 16 mic channels in and feeding the 16 onboard preamps to the recording system)

2. Can a certain output be routed to multiple physical outputs?  (in this case routing a channel direct out to both the ADAT outputs on the MY16-AT and the Aviom outputs in the Aviom YGDAI card)

Thanks,

[Matt McCord]

Yes the YGDAI input and output simultaneously.  And yes you can also route a signal to multiple physical outputs.  In fact on the 01V96, the default output automatically gets routed to multiple outputs when you have the YGDAI cards.  On the direct outs you can chose where you want the signal to come from in the signal path (pre eq, pre fade, post fade).  Hope this helps.

[Mac Kerr]

Yes and yes. All the analog MY cards except the MY- ADDA8 are either input or output. All the digital cards are both input and output. Any output signal can be softpatched to as many output ports as you want. Any input signal can be softpatched to as many input control channels as you want.

For what it's worth, if you are going to be trying to keep all those digital machines in sync, with the setup you have described, optical mic pre split to DM1000 and recorder with the recorder also getting feeds from the console, you are going to have to use wordclock to keep it all in sync. You can either use an external WC generator with multiple outputs, or use the DM1000 as the WC master, and "T" the WC signal to all the devices

Mac

[Ivan Beaver]

As the other have already answered your question, I might add, you cannot "Y" to channels or inputs together-unless you use a buss or group.  You can however "split" a signal as many times to as many outputs as you wish.  DO NOT however assign a channel to go through a group (that is then routed to the main output) and also to the main output- at the same time.  You will get comb-filtering that can drive you nuts.  This is common on all Yamaha consoles (AND most other digital consoles as well)  DO NOT believe the manufacturer if they say this does not happen.  Most don't want to believe it, but they do.  I have only ran into one manufacturer that does not have the combfiltering on dual paths issue.  It is not a big deal, as long as you know aobut it and how NOT to make it happen.  If you do accidently do it (as I did on a PM1D once-and it took me quite a while to figure what was wrong with the vocal I was doing a demo between a PM1D and a SYS 80 side by side.  The customer wanted me to sell them on the PM1D AND THEN sell them on the SYS80-showing the advantages and disadvantages of both) you will not be able to fix it with EQ-even though you might try-to no avail.

Sorry to ramble.

[Mac Kerr]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Mon, 10 October 2005 21:28

I have only ran into one manufacturer that does not have the combfiltering on dual paths issue.

OK Ivan, out with it.    Which console does not have different latency with different signal path?

Mac  

[Ivan Beaver]

Since you really must know.  The Innovason is the only I have found.  I have not tested them all of course, but it works just like an analog desk in that the 2 paths just add in level.

There may be others, but DON'T trust what the reps-or the manufacturer says (I called the Yamaha factory and they thought I was crazy-unitll they tried it themselves).

All the others will tell you that theirs don't.  Maybe some do and dome don't-you must find out for yourself.

Just do the test.  Input a signal and route the 2 paths (1 direct to the main and the other through a subgroup) and sum to a common output.  Adjust the levels so they are equal (by themselves),then turn them both on and listen!    If it gets all "hollowy/swishy" etc. you have found one that has a problem.

[Justin Rygel]

Thanks for all the replies.  So it looks like a DM1000 will work well for my application unless we decide we might need more than 32 inputs at some point (I know that it is capable of 48, but it won't be when one of the slots is taken up by the Aviom out card).  

I was planning on using the Yamaha as the master wordclock and getting a powered wordclock distributor.

Ivan, thanks for the heads-up on the comb filtering; I hadn't heard of that, having never really used digital before (other than borrowing an o1V a couple times).

Are there any reasons I might want to consider the o2r96 instead of the DM1000 other than the additonal input capability and the smoother workflow allowed by a larger surface with more physical controls.  The channel routing and processing for the two consoles are almost identical, correct?

Thanks,

[Ivan Beaver]

All of the Yamaha have basically the same structure.  The difference is # of ins and outs/channels on a single layer/card slots/auxes etc.  As you go up in price you get more of each of these things.  And some other "goodies as well".  You get the same EQ/dynamics/routing etc., untill you get to the PM5d and then the EQ resolution goes down (along with the PM1D).  I don't know about the new M7-but will find out soon as we are installing 2 in early December-assuming the customer does not change their mind-as they seem to do every couple of months or so.

[Mac Kerr]

Oh, I'm aware of the problem, I'm most curious about why t=it doesn't happen with the Innovason.  I would think that there would be some DSP time involved in passing through another bus path, causing the difference in latency that causes the comb filtering (since time is phase   ) It would be interesting to know how that DSP time is avoided in the Innovason.

Mac

[Ivan Beaver]

Maybe they are compensating for that somehow in the path to the mains-to account for the fact that some people might do that.  Or maybe they are doing something like BE-amp soes in their processors in which as you add block or paths, it compensates so that all inputs to outputs have the same path length (delay) no matter what the number of blocks used.

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