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Author Topic: Last Nights show - first time for everything...  (Read 11713 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« on: March 08, 2015, 12:17:26 pm »

OK…so we have all had idiots in the audience think they know better than us and tell us so as has been documented many times on the forum. However, last night we had a guy come over and he was having this conversation with Chris. I couldn't hear anything over the music and I saw him give Chris a piece of paper.

He had kindly taken the time to write down a short list of instructions in huge font for us so we would be able to get through the night.

It stated - and I quote….   "Good mix at middle of room

                                              BUT

                                        Bass drum drowns (spelling) out

                                         ------------------>

                                             OVER"

                     (next page)

                                    "Bass Drum down  (large arrow pointing down)

                                            OR

                                   Bass and Guitar Up

                                     1 notch

                                 then maybe vocals  as well

                                     1 notch"

Yep …….when Chris handed it to me I couldn't help but laugh which the guy saw.

Don't think the guy likes much kick ?????

So my first question is - what is this technical term 'notch'?
Secondly, I think at some point you guys should have at least let me know that instead of turning one channel up, I could simply turn all the others down to get the same result. Why didn't anyone tell me that?
And lastly WTF ??
 


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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 12:29:47 pm »

That he thought the bass was under-mixed compared to the drum points to differences in mix taste, but I had a similar thing a few years ago at a really cool blues/jazz gig.  Customer comes up to me an basically said "You're RUINING this marvelous performance with so much bass guitar and bass drum (he didn't say kick)."  I asked where he was sitting and he pointed to his table.  The empty seat was was in a 'power alley' node.  I suggested he move to the other end of the 8ft. table and see if he liked it better.  I tried to explain the node he was in.  He gave me a dirty look like I was shining him on, but he went away.

After the show he came back to tell me that he liked the mix much better when he moved and that he was no longer skeptical of my explanation.  I gave him a better run down of what was going on and, while the walk out music was playing, took him on a little tour of what happens with dipole arrays.  He got it.
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 12:37:09 pm »

Faders can move down?  Gain and trim pots can turn counter-clockwise (anti-clockwise)?  The YouTube videos never show that!  If only I had taken the Full Sail courses....  (End snark/sarcastic comments.). Mark C.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 12:38:23 pm »

That he thought the bass was under-mixed compared to the drum points to differences in mix taste, but I had a similar thing a few years ago at a really cool blues/jazz gig.  Customer comes up to me an basically said "You're RUINING this marvelous performance with so much bass guitar and bass drum (he didn't say kick)."  I asked where he was sitting and he pointed to his table.  The empty seat was was in a 'power alley' node.  I suggested he move to the other end of the 8ft. table and see if he liked it better.  I tried to explain the node he was in.  He gave me a dirty look like I was shining him on, but he went away.

After the show he came back to tell me that he liked the mix much better when he moved and that he was no longer skeptical of my explanation.  I gave him a better run down of what was going on and, while the walk out music was playing, took him on a little tour of what happens with dipole arrays.  He got it.

And everyone lived happily ever after.


Reminds me of the time I went to a city park to check out a concert series, see who was playing and who was providing sound. 

First band shows up exactly when they're supposed to start playing instead of in time to set up their drums and amps, so "line check and go".  In under one minute, a lady comes up to the FOH tech at the board and starts in on him.  I distract her and take her off to the side and explain that SOP is to wait until the third song is over before "offering assistance".

She bought it...and the tech was grinning.   
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 12:45:07 pm »

So my first question is - what is this technical term 'notch'?
That would be 1 click or 1 marking on the silkscreen on the level fader.. which isn't much so I'd agree this is more a personal taste thing. Some BEs do have an unnatural obsession with the perfect kick sound and it is often way too loud in the mix like 10dB or more but that's not 1 notch down, so I agree this guy was probably just sitting in a room node.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 12:51:06 pm »

And lastly WTF ??

"Thanks for your input.  I think you'll find that all your criteria have been met if you just listen FROM THE NEXT BAR DOWN THE STREET."

or

" I'd like to help you out.  Which way did you come in???"
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John Penkala

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 12:57:31 pm »

That he thought the bass was under-mixed compared to the drum points to differences in mix taste, but I had a similar thing a few years ago at a really cool blues/jazz gig.  Customer comes up to me an basically said "You're RUINING this marvelous performance with so much bass guitar and bass drum (he didn't say kick)."  I asked where he was sitting and he pointed to his table.  The empty seat was was in a 'power alley' node.  I suggested he move to the other end of the 8ft. table and see if he liked it better.  I tried to explain the node he was in.  He gave me a dirty look like I was shining him on, but he went away.

After the show he came back to tell me that he liked the mix much better when he moved and that he was no longer skeptical of my explanation.  I gave him a better run down of what was going on and, while the walk out music was playing, took him on a little tour of what happens with dipole arrays.  He got it.

      A big takeaway here is to always ask where the person was listening from. I've had critics say they can't hear the show just to find out they were in the hallway on their cell phone and not even in the room! Another time a gentleman in his mid-eighties with dual hearing aids said he couldn't hear the program but refused to use the assisted listening device. I don't know if the batteries were dead in his in-ears or what? In any case, I always pause and think before I respond. Sometimes the complaints are legitimate other times not. YMMV

-JP
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 01:23:42 pm »

OK…so we have all had idiots in the audience think they know better than us and tell us so as has been documented many times on the forum. However, last night we had a guy come over and he was having this conversation with Chris. I couldn't hear anything over the music and I saw him give Chris a piece of paper.

He had kindly taken the time to write down a short list of instructions in huge font for us so we would be able to get through the night.

It stated - and I quote….   "Good mix at middle of room

                                              BUT

                                        Bass drum drowns (spelling) out

                                         ------------------>

                                             OVER"

                     (next page)

                                    "Bass Drum down  (large arrow pointing down)

                                            OR

                                   Bass and Guitar Up

                                     1 notch

                                 then maybe vocals  as well

                                     1 notch"

Yep …….when Chris handed it to me I couldn't help but laugh which the guy saw.

Don't think the guy likes much kick ?????

So my first question is - what is this technical term 'notch'?
Secondly, I think at some point you guys should have at least let me know that instead of turning one channel up, I could simply turn all the others down to get the same result. Why didn't anyone tell me that?
And lastly WTF ??
I never say anything to the FOH mix engineer .... except when it is positive, and then only at the end of the show or on break.  I have had enough people try to explain to me how the mix should be that I know how annoying it is.  This guy should have known better.

I have even had instances where the band playing wanted me to say something to the venue FOH guy because they knew me and didn't like the sound they were getting.  Nope.  Not gonna do it.  Even if everything is so messed up that there exists no chance for a good mix.

As for the difference in taste, everyone has it.  Some like more kick, some like more sibilance on the vocals, etc, etc.

I would have personally thought the guy was pretty darned full of himself to make a manifesto on everything he thought was wrong with the mix. 

Hopefully it didn't bother you so much as to ruin your night :)
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 01:57:56 pm »

I was at a native american pow wow at a local middle school yesterday. Event starts at 11AM, with the first big ceremony at 1PM. Guy running sound shows up around 11:45AM with his speakers- until then, the MC is making announcements using a wireless lav pack.

The gear:
PV115
PV215
2x JBL TR125
1 unknown box with bare wire connectors
Peavy 16ch powered mixer - XR1600C, I think
Another powered Peavey mixer, maybe an XR600E?
A wireless pack, but unsure of the make/model. It did have a Peavey logo on the side, but that might have been a sticker. They were trying to use burgundy duct tape to affix the receiver to the wall of this gym (a brick wall, of course) with little success.

I've NO idea how they were patching the two mixers together, or balancing the speaker load. They showed up with no power strips for their gear, or batteries for their mic, so the client had to go to Lowe's to buy some. They just BARELY had something up and running by a bit after 1PM, and it sounded as good as you'd expect.

... I kept wanting to run home (mile or so away) and grab four STX812Ms, an IT-4K, LS9, and couple channels of Sennheiser RF. I think I could have done that, been back, and set up and running before they were. *shrugs* They were only paying $400 for the service, so-- they got that value, I guess?

-Ray
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John L Nobile

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Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 02:27:35 pm »

I'm thinking he was a guitarist. Guitar is never loud enough for some of them.
I hate it when singers boyfriends are there. I got yelled at once cause the guy said he couldn't hear his girlfriends voice. Had 8 people singing, mostly unison. And when I looked up she had the mic at her tummy level. I told the bouncer to get him outta my face as I was very busy and he wouldn't stop.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Last Nights show - first time for everything...
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 02:27:35 pm »


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