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Author Topic: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often  (Read 6997 times)

Richard Turner

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seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« on: March 01, 2015, 10:16:22 pm »

This right here is what you are you against when home brewing loudspeakers.....  An army of assemblers... 4 CNC routers... Pro paint booths....

Well worth 12.5 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=155Ps75_y6s
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Looking at retiring. Local PA market has shrank to 2 guys with guitars and bose l1 compacts or expecting full line array and 16 movers on stage for $300... no middle left going back to event DJ stuff, half the work for twice the pay.

John L Nobile

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 10:46:23 pm »

This right here is what you are you against when home brewing loudspeakers.....  An army of assemblers... 4 CNC routers... Pro paint booths....

Well worth 12.5 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=155Ps75_y6s

Thanks for the link. I've owned a few Yorkville boxes over the years. I always thought that they w ere the best value years ago. I wonder if all their products are made in Pickering?
They've always been looked at as a working musicians product and I've seen a lot of riders with "no Yorkville" on them. I'd use them. Great quality and some good designs.
Not sure what agreement they have with Danley. I know their Unity horn was his design but I saw a Paraline logo on the video. Is that another Danley design?
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Richard Turner

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 11:47:52 pm »

Yorkville is consistently and quietly rated a good company to work for in Canada. Most every manager for Long-Mcquade music stores ends up there for training on yorkville and traynor product.

I guess they keep things simple, if you show up and do your job as instructed and add input to make your job and the job of whoever is next to you on the line easier and you get to come back so long as you are able or want to.

Seeing as most everything is short run in the grand scheme of things I cant see getting too bored. Make one product for a week or 2 . switch the line to something else rotate through, prototype a run of something for next year...

Not everything is made in plant, they have swayed into brought in from china stuff, the collesium mini stuff is china made as are a lot of the apex brand assc.

I do get the no yorkville thing though as so far as pro audio the line has been limited, guess thats why VTC was branded as a separate company, That said an EF508 and TX5 shared the same components back in the day. The pulse series really bit them on the ass. it was cheap cheap cheap but I guess they sold literally tons of it and stood behind it on warranty, great value for dollar for any working musician for sure.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 11:50:11 pm by Richard Turner »
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Looking at retiring. Local PA market has shrank to 2 guys with guitars and bose l1 compacts or expecting full line array and 16 movers on stage for $300... no middle left going back to event DJ stuff, half the work for twice the pay.

Ivan Beaver

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 07:54:03 am »


Not sure what agreement they have with Danley. I know their Unity horn was his design but I saw a Paraline logo on the video. Is that another Danley design?
The Unity horn was designed by Yorkville engineers based on Tom Danleys Unity horn patent.  That was done back when Tom worked for SPL, and the licensing is done with SPL.

The same thing applies to the paraline and tapped horn products that Yorkvilles uses today.  They have a licensing agreement with Danley Sound Labs for use of the technologies.  Tom did not design the particular products those technologies are used in.

So while the idea is Tom Danleys-the actual implementation and design in that or Yorkville.

It is interesting to note that Yorkville built the very first paraline prototype lens for us to play with.
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Craig Leerman

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 06:53:51 pm »

This right here is what you are you against when home brewing loudspeakers.....  An army of assemblers... 4 CNC routers... Pro paint booths....

While you may think I am "up against" big money, in fact the very opposite is true.

Big manufacturers spend large amounts of money on the building, machinery, utilities, insurance, compliance (laws, fire codes, safety, etc) labor, lawyers, marketing and advertising. They also spend money on branding items like name badges or routing/silk screening their name on the product.

While they do see a savings in buying their wood in bulk, or buying tons of parts like handles and drivers and getting a better price than I will buying just a few sheets or a dozen woofers, their other overhead costs drive up their prices.

Then there are profits. I don't have to answer to a corporate board and make X amount of money every quarter, or worse answer to stockholders who demand profits every year.

While I don't have CNC machines my table saw with 50" Vega fence provides accuracy to one thousandths of an inch. My router circle jig does the same.

So why DIY? Well for one, if I can't find exactly what I am looking for I can fabricate it myself. I can experiment with things that manufacturers will not make because the market demand is not there. Also, some people (like me) actually enjoy designing and building things. And last, for some things I can make a comparable product for less than I can purchase.


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Stu McDoniel

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 07:48:32 pm »

While you may think I am "up against" big money, in fact the very opposite is true.

Big manufacturers spend large amounts of money on the building, machinery, utilities, insurance, compliance (laws, fire codes, safety, etc) labor, lawyers, marketing and advertising. They also spend money on branding items like name badges or routing/silk screening their name on the product.

While they do see a savings in buying their wood in bulk, or buying tons of parts like handles and drivers and getting a better price than I will buying just a few sheets or a dozen woofers, their other overhead costs drive up their prices.

Then there are profits. I don't have to answer to a corporate board and make X amount of money every quarter, or worse answer to stockholders who demand profits every year.

While I don't have CNC machines my table saw with 50" Vega fence provides accuracy to one thousandths of an inch. My router circle jig does the same.

So why DIY? Well for one, if I can't find exactly what I am looking for I can fabricate it myself. I can experiment with things that manufacturers will not make because the market demand is not there. Also, some people (like me) actually enjoy designing and building things. And last, for some things I can make a comparable product for less than I can purchase.
I was looking for a "thumbs up" button on your post Craig.
"Thumbs up" !
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 07:50:15 pm »

While you may think I am "up against" big money, in fact the very opposite is true.

Big manufacturers spend large amounts of money on the building, machinery, utilities, insurance, compliance (laws, fire codes, safety, etc) labor, lawyers, marketing and advertising. They also spend money on branding items like name badges or routing/silk screening their name on the product.

While they do see a savings in buying their wood in bulk, or buying tons of parts like handles and drivers and getting a better price than I will buying just a few sheets or a dozen woofers, their other overhead costs drive up their prices.

Then there are profits. I don't have to answer to a corporate board and make X amount of money every quarter, or worse answer to stockholders who demand profits every year.

While I don't have CNC machines my table saw with 50" Vega fence provides accuracy to one thousandths of an inch. My router circle jig does the same.

So why DIY? Well for one, if I can't find exactly what I am looking for I can fabricate it myself. I can experiment with things that manufacturers will not make because the market demand is not there. Also, some people (like me) actually enjoy designing and building things. And last, for some things I can make a comparable product for less than I can purchase.
Yes.

I have always been a DIYer.  It is what got me into this crazy business.

Back in the early days I had very little money-but lots of time and a desire to learn.

I have LEARNED A LOT from things that worked and much more from things that DIDN'T work.  I learned a lot from my mistakes.

I agree that it was a lot of "doing what I wanted/needed" as I wanted it-well that and a lack of money-----------

That experience has a lot to do with getting me where I am-where ever that is :0
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duane massey

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 09:44:04 pm »

Most of us got into this business as DIY-er's, or at least the "older" group. I have reached the point that I only build something if there is nothing available that will take it's place. I enjoy building things, but not mass-production. I'll leave that to the big guys.
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Duane Massey
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Tom Bourke

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2015, 09:50:17 pm »

This right here is what you are you against when home brewing loudspeakers.....  An army of assemblers... 4 CNC routers... Pro paint booths....

Well worth 12.5 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=155Ps75_y6s
Building a CNC Router is on my list.  I will start on it after I am done with the CNC milling machine I am currently working on.  Paint boot is also on my wish list.  As for the army of assemblers?  Got me on that one.  Maybe that's why my hobby projects take so long.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 02:48:26 am »

Building a CNC Router is on my list.
I have started one.  I use an Excellon CNC drill/router at work.  It was originally bought to make printed circuit boards but I now use it to make test jigs and assembly aids (and parts for CNC routers!).
What software are you using?  I have downloaded and installed Linux CNC.  It is a superbly written and documented piece of software but you do need to run Linux for it to work.


Steve.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 07:51:17 am »

Most of us got into this business as DIY-er's, or at least the "older" group. I have reached the point that I only build something if there is nothing available that will take it's place. I enjoy building things, but not mass-production. I'll leave that to the big guys.
I still build various pieces of electonics/controls etc for testing-demos etc.

Mainly because there is nothing available at any price that will do what I want it to do.  So you HAVE to build it yourself.

And I STILL enjoy that aspect.  There is something that just "takes me back" and gives you pride when it works. :)
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Ivan Beaver
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Tom Bourke

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 08:22:33 am »

What software are you using?  I have downloaded and installed Linux CNC.  It is a superbly written and documented piece of software but you do need to run Linux for it to work.
I am running Linux CNC as well.  Most of my computers have linux of one form or another on them.  Been using linux for over 10 years so it was an easy choice for me.  My mill is the MicroMark variant of the sx2.  X,Y, and spindle are under computer control.  I am working on Z but it is slow going.  Most of my free time lately has been spent on building furniture because we could not find what we wanted.
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duane massey

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 11:30:45 am »

I doubt that I could utilize a CNC system for my projects as the pieces I work with tend to be very large. A full-size machine could do the work but not a small one.
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Duane Massey
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Tom Bourke

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 07:02:32 pm »

I doubt that I could utilize a CNC system for my projects as the pieces I work with tend to be very large. A full-size machine could do the work but not a small one.
With any luck by the time I build a CNC for sheet goods I will have enough space and money to build a full size unit.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 02:45:15 am »

The system in the linked video is great.  I would love to have that... actually, I would love to have just the space for it.


Steve.
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Richard Turner

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 10:49:25 am »

I'm guessing a decision was made somewhere to use CNC routering for all sheet stock cutting.

A vertical panel saw would leave a cleaner edge and cut faster. They are available fully automated but then the cut pieces would have to be fed back to the router anyway for cutting holes and chamfering edges....

Guess the bean counters figured out the math.

Also I guess most electronics are still done on 1 sided boards so they are still using a wave solder for the most part

Sure would like to have seen a video from the peavey woodshop from when it was in full production 20-25 years ago
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Looking at retiring. Local PA market has shrank to 2 guys with guitars and bose l1 compacts or expecting full line array and 16 movers on stage for $300... no middle left going back to event DJ stuff, half the work for twice the pay.

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 11:03:22 am »

I'm guessing a decision was made somewhere to use CNC routering for all sheet stock cutting.

A vertical panel saw would leave a cleaner edge and cut faster. They are available fully automated but then the cut pieces would have to be fed back to the router anyway for cutting holes and chamfering edges....

Guess the bean counters figured out the math.

Also I guess most electronics are still done on 1 sided boards so they are still using a wave solder for the most part

Sure would like to have seen a video from the peavey woodshop from when it was in full production 20-25 years ago
Which wood shop? The cabinet area in the middle of plant 3 used huge panel saws(?) and was hopping, but not extremely automated AFAIK. OTOH Hartley pioneered using CNC machinery in the guitar plant to accurately cut repeatable guitar necks.

The automation of the huge sheet metal machines were pretty impressive, where the fork lift would load in 4x8' stacks of sheet metal and it would slice and dice them down into piles of perfect parts.

JR 

PS: I know a little about DIY, I used to run a kit business back in the '70s
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Steve M Smith

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 11:19:52 am »

Sure would like to have seen a video from the peavey woodshop from when it was in full production 20-25 years ago
I visited the one in England about 25 years ago and it was quite impressive.


Steve.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 11:36:00 am »

I visited the one in England about 25 years ago and it was quite impressive.


Steve.

Corby was a modest operation compared to Plant 3 in Meridian. The plant 3 building was 1/4 mile long. I recall having to walk through the wood shop to get to receiving that was at the opposite end of the building from where my office was. Even with the dust collection systems it was hard to see in the wood area with so much sawdust in the air.

JR

PS: But plant 3 is now open with a skeleton crew. That Undercover Boss episode showed them making some cheap PA cabinets in the wood shop but AFAIK that line is now shut down.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 12:58:07 pm »

Yes, the Corby plant was quite modest and the speakers I saw being built were the Eurosys with a fairly simple glued and stapled together rectangular box.  But it was interesting to watch a sheet of wood come in and be turned into a finished cabinet as we watched.  Especially as I had never seen anything like it before.


Steve.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: seeing as homebrew comes up on here most often
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 12:58:07 pm »


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