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Author Topic: VRX Clones?  (Read 17740 times)

John L Nobile

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2015, 12:59:33 pm »

The in-house AV company at our resort uses VRX. I've never used them but have heard them many times. Maybe it's just me (or their setup) but I think they sound terrible.
Do they actually sound good when used properly?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2015, 01:05:44 pm »

The in-house AV company at our resort uses VRX. I've never used them but have heard them many times. Maybe it's just me (or their setup) but I think they sound terrible.
Do they actually sound good when used properly?

Yes and no.

You can EQ out some of what you don't like, but it will come back when you push the rig hard.

The main thing I intensely dislike is the spectral inconsistency of the horizontal coverage.  It's a direct result of having the HF to the side of the LF and there isn't anything you can do about it.  This is why you see HF in the center of most line arrays, flanked by the MF and LF.  Guido Noselli was on to something when he designed the Outline Butterfly and closed the gap between the MF & LF components, something also done by Nexo in the Geo T series.  EAW is now doing the same thing with the ANYA rig.

"Captain, I canna rewrite the laws of physics!"  - Scotty on Star Trek

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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

John L Nobile

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2015, 01:28:08 pm »

Yes and no.

You can EQ out some of what you don't like, but it will come back when you push the rig hard.

The main thing I intensely dislike is the spectral inconsistency of the horizontal coverage.  It's a direct result of having the HF to the side of the LF and there isn't anything you can do about it.  This is why you see HF in the center of most line arrays, flanked by the MF and LF.  Guido Noselli was on to something when he designed the Outline Butterfly and closed the gap between the MF & LF components, something also done by Nexo in the Geo T series.  EAW is now doing the same thing with the ANYA rig.

"Captain, I canna rewrite the laws of physics!"  - Scotty on Star Trek
The AV guys here don't like them either and only use them when their EV self powered boxes on sticks are in use in other rooms. I gotta say those EVs sound much better.
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Matthew Knischewsky

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2015, 02:08:05 pm »

Yes and no.

You can EQ out some of what you don't like, but it will come back when you push the rig hard.


Agree.

John, I wouldn't classify them as terrible, they can sound quite good when used appropriately. However there is that matter of the uneven horizontal coverage that makes them sound not as good as they cost.

Matt

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Keith Broughton

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2015, 03:27:54 pm »

The in-house AV company at our resort uses VRX. I've never used them but have heard them many times. Maybe it's just me (or their setup) but I think they sound terrible.
Do they actually sound good when used properly?
I have used them in dual and quad configurations.
They sound like crap for band work but are workable for dialogue.
Whatever you do, don't use the EQ switches!!

Hey MattyK ...watsup! :)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 03:30:10 pm by Keith Broughton »
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Richard Turner

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2015, 04:46:15 pm »

Clair Bros and Ratt sound would both be ones I would exempt from "homebrew" I'm sure at a certain point their designs were vetted by engineers before being flown above humans at live events with a gate fee.

If these boxes are designed for essentially the same components as a yamaha S112V I cant see it being a real improvement.

Again just for convincing the sheep clients that you have a sideways speaker system and its better then a ground stack trap rig.
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Looking at retiring. Local PA market has shrank to 2 guys with guitars and bose l1 compacts or expecting full line array and 16 movers on stage for $300... no middle left going back to event DJ stuff, half the work for twice the pay.

Ivan Beaver

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2015, 05:01:45 pm »



If these boxes are designed for essentially the same components as a yamaha S112V I cant see it being a real improvement.


From what I could tell from the photos, there is a single HF driver in the "cabinet in question" and not 3 as in the VRX.

That really changes things when try to think of the cabinet as a "line array"  Getting the horn correct is one of the "keys" to line array design.

Of course there is not a lot of "design" in a front loaded cabinet-with a single HF driver that uses a generic crossover.

But as long as you have "something" that looks like a "line array", many people will be "happy".  Truly sad---------

Does it really matter if it actually works as described ??????

Apparently not with many products these days :(
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Jamin Lynch

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2015, 05:34:26 pm »

With a little work the VRX's can be made to sound OK.

But the highs will always sound like bacon frying
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"At first you don't succeed, go back to the drawing board."

Ray Aberle

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2015, 05:59:38 pm »

Clair Bros and Ratt sound would both be ones I would exempt from "homebrew" I'm sure at a certain point their designs were vetted by engineers before being flown above humans at live events with a gate fee.

If these boxes are designed for essentially the same components as a yamaha S112V I cant see it being a real improvement.

Again just for convincing the sheep clients that you have a sideways speaker system and its better then a ground stack trap rig.

Re Clair Brothers and such, and home brew speakers-- you have to understand the reason behind accepting (or not) custom built speakers-- and it doesn't have anything to do with the actual quality of the design.

It's A Known Factor.

Clair Bros 12AM wedges are wildly accepted not only because you know that there's quality workmanship, but also because you know how they're supposed to sound. Same with their big boxes. Consistency is key.

A guy in his garage-- he might know what he's doing, he might not. But even if he's the smartest guy around, and builds an AMAZING box that sounds awesome, a BE is still going to reject it because he doesn't know how it's supposed to sound, and he can't plan for it accordingly. You tell someone you're bringing Kara, or a VerTec rig, they're going to ask you how it's processed, or (with VerTec) that you're running current processor presets, and they're done. "Oh, I built some shit in my garage, hope you like it!" tells the BE/A1 that they really have no clue how it's going to sound until it's plugged in. And that doesn't make for a good day.

Same deal with SM58s-- why will any tech take them if nothing else/better is available? Cos you can work with them. You know how they sound.

Homebuilt speakers also raises another subtle concern in a BE's mind... "This dude can't afford real speakers, what else is f*cked up in their rig?" I was on a show once where the system owner was... re-wiring... amp... racks... in... the... truck... as his speakers were being unloaded and set up. Just because of that, the impression of NOT being prepared and having done gig prep at the shop right... I was wondering what else was wrong with his system.

Now your mileage may vary, and for a small town, only one provider in 150 miles situation, and absolutely no riders to worry about, you'll probably be OK. But, make sure your insurance knows about what you're doing!!

[Granted that there are still exceptions to all of these rules. I would trust, for example, Evan Kirkendall's HS118 boxes. Yes, he built them himself, but having the knowledge of his background and experience, I would be confident that they will sound great. The other part of that equation is a consistent design build. They look good, and there's a pile of them all built to the same spec. That instills a LOT more confidence in me.]

-Ray
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Stephen Snipes

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Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2015, 07:29:06 pm »

From what I could tell from the photos, there is a single HF driver in the "cabinet in question" and not 3 as in the VRX.

That really changes things when try to think of the cabinet as a "line array"  Getting the horn correct is one of the "keys" to line array design.

Of course there is not a lot of "design" in a front loaded cabinet-with a single HF driver that uses a generic crossover.

But as long as you have "something" that looks like a "line array", many people will be "happy".  Truly sad---------

Does it really matter if it actually works as described ??????

Apparently not with many products these days :(

It can be built using a single or a dual driver. 
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: VRX Clones?
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2015, 07:29:06 pm »


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