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[Eddie Vansell]

If this is outlined somewhere else, please direct me to it as I know this is probably a basic question. I'm probably a decade behind when it comes to projector technology, but would benefit greatly if someone could lay it out for me simply.

Here's what we have and what I'm attempting to do - at our church we run MediaShout on a PC maybe 200ft away from the projector to the back of the room. The signal run was done nearly 7 years ago with VGA splitter/amps and is noisy for today's standards. I'm looking for the lowest cost and most efficient solution to run an HD signal from the computer to a stage display, in addition to the main projector. I'm assuming that DVI/Cat transmitters and receivers would be what I'm looking for, but I'm unaware of current standards (ie. Cat5, Cat6, brands, etc).

This is what we're using - The computer's main display output is from a dual DVI card, while the stage display is ran from a converted USB port via the NewerTech Display Adapter http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer+Technology/VIDU2DVIA/. And finally, the main display is projected by a ViewSonic Pro8450w WXGA Projector and the stage display is simply a Philips HD television with available DVI, VGA, and HDMI inputs.

I was looking for solutions via the Tripp•Lite website http://www.tripplite.com/product/av-display-extenders/787. Am I completely off base here? Thanks for your help and patience!

[Jonathan Kok]

If this is outlined somewhere else, please direct me to it as I know this is probably a basic question. I'm probably a decade behind when it comes to projector technology, but would benefit greatly if someone could lay it out for me simply.

Here's what we have and what I'm attempting to do - at our church we run MediaShout on a PC maybe 200ft away from the projector to the back of the room. The signal run was done nearly 7 years ago with VGA splitter/amps and is noisy for today's standards. I'm looking for the lowest cost and most efficient solution to run an HD signal from the computer to a stage display, in addition to the main projector. I'm assuming that DVI/Cat transmitters and receivers would be what I'm looking for, but I'm unaware of current standards (ie. Cat5, Cat6, brands, etc).

This is what we're using - The computer's main display output is from a dual DVI card, while the stage display is ran from a converted USB port via the NewerTech Display Adapter http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer+Technology/VIDU2DVIA/. And finally, the main display is projected by a ViewSonic Pro8450w WXGA Projector and the stage display is simply a Philips HD television with available DVI, VGA, and HDMI inputs.

I was looking for solutions via the Tripp•Lite website http://www.tripplite.com/product/av-display-extenders/787. Am I completely off base her? Thanks for your help and patience!

There's a lot of manufacturers offering HDMI-over-Cat5 solutions. Some use their own standards, some use the standard developed by the HDBaseT Alliance (soon to be an IEEE standard). Based on today's offerings, I'd stay away from anything that requires two cables--that's old technology and was superseded by single catx systems a couple of years ago.

There's cheap ones, and expensive ones, and the in-betweens. Most often, to guarantee performance, you'll be required to use the manufacturer's cable. Not to say it won't work with another, but the manufacturer won't guarantee it. The manufacturers I use all demand a shielded Cat6 cable to guarantee performance, though technically, the HDBaseT standard is built on Cat5e UTP.

At 200', that's a long run, and towards the longer range of typical systems. Not sure what you'll find in the 'cheap' category that will guarantee that, at least, not at 1080p.

I have nothing against TrippLite...but I wouldn't consider AV their forte. A host of manufacturers dedicated to the industry are available. Here's a few:

Magenta Research
Kramer
Crestron
Extron
Hall Research
Aurora
Atlona

All that being said...I've heard Monoprice's HDBaseT system works well...though reading the reviews, there seems to be a lot of 'replaced after a year', despite the 4-star reviews. Not sure how to take that...if one of the units from the above manufacturers failed after a year, I'd never use them again.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2

[Lee Douglas]

The first thing I would try would be to run an HDMI source right at the projector to see if improvement is possible.  The projector is five years old with a native resolution of 1280x800.  You want to be sure their expectation are reasonable for this projector.

From there run several known name brand Cat6 cables to the projector from the source.  One of these will be for a video over category wire solution and the others will be spares for future networking, I/R control and anything else that might come down the line.  Out of the Tripplite offerings you linked, the B126-1A1SR would fit your requirements and then some and supports newer higher resolution standards.

As Jonathon said, their are better AV centric companies that I would go with before Tripplite.

[Eddie Vansell]

Thanks for the reply and practical information Jonathan! This helps.

You're right concerning the length of the run, I would assume some sort of repeater would be needed before hitting 150ft.

I took a look at the Monoprice offering ... that seems like a big claim to me at a specified 328ft for 1080p? At $190 I'd say it's worth a shot though.

[Eddie Vansell]

Lee, thanks for the reply! I understand what you're saying. 720p fits within WXGA right? In my summation at 50ft away I wouldn't be able to tell much difference versus full HD anyway. I'd bet money that it's signal degradation and choked resolution from the vga cable (especially given the length of the run). If I bring up the menu within the projector, it's razor sharp. I know this isn't practical source material for judgement, but I would think that it would give some idea to the unit's native sharpness right? Not arguing, just asking questions.

Great advice. Thanks again.

[Lee Douglas]

If I bring up the menu within the projector, it's razor sharp. I know this isn't practical source material for judgement, but I would think that it would give some idea to the unit's native sharpness right? Not arguing, just asking questions.

On screen graphics are generally bright colors and lower resolution and generally easy for a projector to reproduce, so they almost always look good.  What it doesn't do is speak to shortcomings of the source you intend to use.  By pulling the long run out of the equation you can really see what your working with.  Not all sources are created equal.  Some really suck, even with a two foot cable.  It doesn't cost much more than a little time to try it.

[Rob Spence]

I have 120' HDMI cable. It has an amp about 1/3rd from one end. The transmit end has a tail with a USB connector for power.

If I remember right, the place I bought it (via Amazon) had longer ones.


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[John Rutirasiri]

 I have had good luck with Gefen DVI over cat5/6.  They have two models, one uses two cat5/6 cables (more reliable for long runs) and one that uses single cable.  I have also use other no-name brands (e.g. Tiger Direct) and it works fine.  Shielded cables (with metal connectors) work best for runs over 100ft.

For live show I normally run SDI, but if HDMI, Athlona Roadnet works very well with 200ft of unshielded CAT5e.

Finally, FSR has their fiber optic HDMI cables.  Very expensive, but it can go over hundreds of feet without any kind of baluns, send/receive units, etc.

If pulling new cat5, I'd go with something like Belden 1700S6, which bundles 6 separate cables into 1.  Easy to pull, saves time.

(BTW, HDMI and DVI use the same electrical signaling and are interchangeable.  You just don't have audio or ethernet with DVI.)

John R.

[Jerome Malsack]

With Cat 6 shielded I would like to also question about ground loop issues ?  Has the industry looked at this and provided an answer like the audio side ?   

Computer and network has not looked at this and said anything that I have seen either. 

[Jonathan Kok]

With Cat 6 shielded I would like to also question about ground loop issues ?  Has the industry looked at this and provided an answer like the audio side ?   

Computer and network has not looked at this and said anything that I have seen either. 

An interesting thought. Computer and network designers often recommend connecting the ground at one end only (allowing the shielding to act as a drain, rather than bonding the grounds together). With the HDBaseT standard, this solution would not be an issue. With other proprietary formats, this WOULD be an issue, as the ground is used as a communications conductor.
Keeping in mind, in the analog audio world, 'ground loop' issues are audible hums; in the digital world we're talking about here, the same connection may not have a noticeable impact. A ground hum might result in distortion of the digital waveform, but the receiver may still be able to discern the appropriate image.

[John Rutirasiri]

With Cat 6 shielded I would like to also question about ground loop issues ?  Has the industry looked at this and provided an answer like the audio side ?   

Computer and network has not looked at this and said anything that I have seen either.

Jerome, an RJ45 ethernet port on a computer,  video sender (whether proprietary or HDbaseT), AVB, and other digital audio (e.g. Roland REAC, AES50) are galvanically isolated, so should be no issue.  For analog, possible ground loop issue since the metal jacket on the RJ45 are connected on both ends via the shield and drain wire. I try to keep the shielded cat6 in the video trunk but they get mixed up in the audio trunk, so sometimes grab the wrong cable and run shielded cat6 with AES/EBU which is fine -- both ends are transformer isolated. 


Best,
JR

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