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Author Topic: Luminair latency last night  (Read 13442 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Luminair latency last night
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2015, 09:57:57 pm »

I am keen to know if you ever do find what the problem was/is.  That is because, like you, I have been running sound and lights wirelessly for a while now without any problems.  But I am concerned that I may be in La La Land and things have just been going well out of pure luck.


As part of my effort to streamline/minimize the overall rig I have been mixing sound and lights on a single iPad2 (ios6) using an X32 rack on V1.15 and the current version of Luminair.  All this is going through an older router (Linksys e2000) that by all accounts never was an exceptional performer.  I do run at 5gHz and often the case containing router and mixer are behind a wall and not directly visible from FOH.






Even with all these pitfalls I have not had any dropouts or latency issues with Luminair nor Xmix.  The only "delay" is after a 4-finger swipe to switch between sound and lighting apps.  On Xmix it usually takes about half a second for the screen paint to completely refresh.  Apparently both programs are able to run in the background even though I only have 16gig on the iPad2. 


But I am waiting for the other shoe to fall.  So if you do find a repeatable problem scenario - please post.

I am not out this weekend but will be using both sound and lights through the one router from now on. Next weekend is the next show.
I considered using the one iPad for both programs when I first went wireless but I realized I couldn't  get to what I needed fast enough so using one iPad for each has been the solution.  How do you do it with one iPad??

I agree that it is easy to become complacent when nothing goes wrong but having a back up plan just in case is definitely a worthwhile plan.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Mike Karseboom

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Re: Luminair latency last night
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2015, 11:23:44 pm »

  How do you do it with one iPad??

I agree that it is easy to become complacent when nothing goes wrong but having a back up plan just in case is definitely a worthwhile plan.


Warning - long post :P


I freelance for whomver will hire me mainly for sound.  So for me the sound mix takes the highest priority and I will make sure that is dialed in first with the lights taking a backseat.  The complexity and interest of the "light show" I can deliver depends to a great extent on how easy the band is to mix.  A band that has great control over their dynamics, has their own special efx by song, and generally sounds consistent after the sound check gives me the freedom to mess around with lighting moves shortly after the song starts.


I have some basic Luminair "stacks" that can run without intervention and provide a "start up" for each song.  I will pick one of these basic stacks and fire it up just as the song starts, then switch over to audio mixing so I am ready for adjustments needed there.  The basic stacks just set an overall color and may provide a slow change of LED colors.    The FOH lights are set up as "*Master" channels so they stay constant regardless of which stacks are triggered.  for my workflow this has been key to not loosing the front lighting when I am busking the lights.  The hazer is also set up as a master and manually triggered before the set and as needed.


Assuming the song gets off to a good start and is "stable", I switch back to Luminair with a 4 finger swipe.  Part of making that switch easy is to end all the iPad programs except Xmix and Luminair.  I also put the Ipad in airplane mode.  This way there are only two programs two switch between and the resources are maximized.  The Luminair program is set to "always run in the background" and the Xmix program seems to do this by default.


I have a variety of stacks that exercise my lighting rig with different colors, auto programs, strobing, sound activated, etc.  These generally separate stacks in some basic color schemes like red/purle, blue/yell, or all over the place.  And they are separate stacks that go from slow and simple to more complex with side to side movement, strobing, white lights, and sound activated.  I can bounce back and forth between the stacks and create somewhat of a flow with the music reserving the wild stacks for the fast songs and the strobing white for any high energy ends.


The "high energy" stacks usually have quick fade times on the first scene and the "mellow energy" stacks generally have a slower (5s or so) fade time.  The slow scenes will have a slowish and generally fully programmed fade time and hold time for each scene.  Those slow ones might have 4-5 scenes to create some movement and each scene might last 30s with a 5s or more fade between them.  The idea being they can run stand alone and be reasonably nice.   And these are the ones employed early in the show so I have time to work on audio tweaks during the first few songs.


The high energy stacks start quick and might have a pre-programmed sequence such as going on/off side to side with the same or different colors.  But often they will have a couple of "introductory" scenes that set the color and feel and the go to a very long scene that really is intended more for busking.  I can switch to the "scene" view and make a quick copy from the current scene and start randomly manipulating the faders for different effects.  It is important for consistency with the stacks to not start busking on an existing scene, but rather make a copy first so you don't mess up your original stack.  One of the nice (for me) things about Luminair is when you switch to a new stack it goes back to a known commodity.  That is as long as you did not manually make any changes to the existing scenes.    I only occasionally use the tempo feature and have not messed with the sound activated feature as it seems way to sensitive with the iPad mic.


The other aspect of busking, which is probably at least 50% of it for me, is switching between stacks.  This lets me drop down to something mellow if the song goes into a mellow verse and then quickly ramp up to something really active when the song hits a high energy chorus something.  Then, if it warrants, I can go to the crazy flashing with a lot of white strobing at the end of the song.


Finally, the BO (Blackout) button can be used at the end of a song when desired to shut it all down instantly, including FOH lights.  I have a stack called FOH only that I pick real quick and then click the BO button again and the FOH only lights fade up in 5s or so.


Any time during a song I need an audio adjustment I just switch over to audio and make the adjustment.  Unless the lights are on one of the crazy scenes, I normally just leave it until I can get back to it. 


I suppose I have about 20 scenes and 10-12 stacks. The "better" light shows are when I don't have to ride faders on the audio and I can busk within the stacks rather than just letting any of them run.  I think one of the keys to keeping it manageable is to just have a few starting looks, have some fixtures that have "mellow" and "fast" auto programs, limiting the number of different types of fixtures, and being familiar with the DMX settings for the main fixtures. Oh, and of course it helps to be very comfortable with the Xmix app.


As to back up I have layers on the audio and lighting end addressing all  (I think) points of failure except my person.  That is a whole 'nother slew of words though and actually a sore spot for me as it always adds about 25% to the crap I haul around and have to make plans for.
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--Mike
"If you're not confused, you don't know what is going on"

Live Sound for the Mt. Shasta area
http://www.shastalivesound.com

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Luminair latency last night
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2015, 05:41:52 pm »


Warning - long post :P


I freelance for whomver will hire me mainly for sound.  So for me the sound mix takes the highest priority and I will make sure that is dialed in first with the lights taking a backseat.  The complexity and interest of the "light show" I can deliver depends to a great extent on how easy the band is to mix.  A band that has great control over their dynamics, has their own special efx by song, and generally sounds consistent after the sound check gives me the freedom to mess around with lighting moves shortly after the song starts.


I have some basic Luminair "stacks" that can run without intervention and provide a "start up" for each song.  I will pick one of these basic stacks and fire it up just as the song starts, then switch over to audio mixing so I am ready for adjustments needed there.  The basic stacks just set an overall color and may provide a slow change of LED colors.    The FOH lights are set up as "*Master" channels so they stay constant regardless of which stacks are triggered.  for my workflow this has been key to not loosing the front lighting when I am busking the lights.  The hazer is also set up as a master and manually triggered before the set and as needed.


Assuming the song gets off to a good start and is "stable", I switch back to Luminair with a 4 finger swipe.  Part of making that switch easy is to end all the iPad programs except Xmix and Luminair.  I also put the Ipad in airplane mode.  This way there are only two programs two switch between and the resources are maximized.  The Luminair program is set to "always run in the background" and the Xmix program seems to do this by default.


I have a variety of stacks that exercise my lighting rig with different colors, auto programs, strobing, sound activated, etc.  These generally separate stacks in some basic color schemes like red/purle, blue/yell, or all over the place.  And they are separate stacks that go from slow and simple to more complex with side to side movement, strobing, white lights, and sound activated.  I can bounce back and forth between the stacks and create somewhat of a flow with the music reserving the wild stacks for the fast songs and the strobing white for any high energy ends.


The "high energy" stacks usually have quick fade times on the first scene and the "mellow energy" stacks generally have a slower (5s or so) fade time.  The slow scenes will have a slowish and generally fully programmed fade time and hold time for each scene.  Those slow ones might have 4-5 scenes to create some movement and each scene might last 30s with a 5s or more fade between them.  The idea being they can run stand alone and be reasonably nice.   And these are the ones employed early in the show so I have time to work on audio tweaks during the first few songs.


The high energy stacks start quick and might have a pre-programmed sequence such as going on/off side to side with the same or different colors.  But often they will have a couple of "introductory" scenes that set the color and feel and the go to a very long scene that really is intended more for busking.  I can switch to the "scene" view and make a quick copy from the current scene and start randomly manipulating the faders for different effects.  It is important for consistency with the stacks to not start busking on an existing scene, but rather make a copy first so you don't mess up your original stack.  One of the nice (for me) things about Luminair is when you switch to a new stack it goes back to a known commodity.  That is as long as you did not manually make any changes to the existing scenes.    I only occasionally use the tempo feature and have not messed with the sound activated feature as it seems way to sensitive with the iPad mic.


The other aspect of busking, which is probably at least 50% of it for me, is switching between stacks.  This lets me drop down to something mellow if the song goes into a mellow verse and then quickly ramp up to something really active when the song hits a high energy chorus something.  Then, if it warrants, I can go to the crazy flashing with a lot of white strobing at the end of the song.


Finally, the BO (Blackout) button can be used at the end of a song when desired to shut it all down instantly, including FOH lights.  I have a stack called FOH only that I pick real quick and then click the BO button again and the FOH only lights fade up in 5s or so.


Any time during a song I need an audio adjustment I just switch over to audio and make the adjustment.  Unless the lights are on one of the crazy scenes, I normally just leave it until I can get back to it. 


I suppose I have about 20 scenes and 10-12 stacks. The "better" light shows are when I don't have to ride faders on the audio and I can busk within the stacks rather than just letting any of them run.  I think one of the keys to keeping it manageable is to just have a few starting looks, have some fixtures that have "mellow" and "fast" auto programs, limiting the number of different types of fixtures, and being familiar with the DMX settings for the main fixtures. Oh, and of course it helps to be very comfortable with the Xmix app.


As to back up I have layers on the audio and lighting end addressing all  (I think) points of failure except my person.  That is a whole 'nother slew of words though and actually a sore spot for me as it always adds about 25% to the crap I haul around and have to make plans for.

Wow - yes that was a long post LOL ..

It sounds like you have a suitable solution that works for you.
My comfort level wouldn't allow me to not have access to both sound and lights at the same time.

Something else mentioned before on the forum is that having an extra iPad available is not a bad idea if something goes wrong with one of them.
I have the luminair app and the QuPad app on both iPads so I have back-up for each. If I had the board in a FOH position and my lighting iPad went down, I could switch and if the iPad I use for the QU went down, sound comes first so again, I could switch. I'd just set the lights to auto program and be done.
So it actually kills 2 birds with one stone - so to speak.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Luminair latency last night
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2015, 10:19:42 am »

Just as an update - sharing the router between sound and lights has been 100%. No issues and I ran the lights in a venue I had previously used the 2.4ghz router before and this time I had no latency or drop out.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Luminair latency last night
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2015, 12:32:27 pm »

Just as an update - sharing the router between sound and lights has been 100%. No issues and I ran the lights in a venue I had previously used the 2.4ghz router before and this time I had no latency or drop out.
Glad to hear it's working better. Have a great weekend!

Sent from my Moto X(XT1053) using Tapatalk

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Re: Luminair latency last night
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2015, 12:32:27 pm »


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