ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions  (Read 4212 times)

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6065
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2015, 09:27:09 pm »

I would disagree with that statement.

Do you have any evidence to back it up?

Assuming the amplifier has a universal supply, the big difference is that there will be a lower current draw from the higher voltage-but that does not mean they will run any cooler.

The fans on the inside will still be run off of the same voltage moving the same amount of air and the actual "amplifier section (not the power supply) will operate off of the same power supply (internal) voltages driving the same impedance loads.

Some amplifiers can also produce higher output voltages (which means more power into the same impedance load) when run off of a higher voltage.  This is due to the input current being lower and often circuits of a lower voltage are current limited.

Evidence?  Other than experience, no.  I know the sign over my desk "in God we trust all others bring data"

I should have said higher power amplifiers.  In my experience.  Mostly with different generation xti's when running close to the 10 or 12 amps RMS at 120V.

Once you move to the higher voltage the amp runs cooler. 

Now that I actually expand on the statement it is not universal.  If you have good clean power, an outlet that can provide a continuous 15A and your crest is not exceeding that it probably makes no difference.

Maybe I should just retract while i am ahead.

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2546
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2015, 11:41:58 pm »

Bill, you have a PM inbound.
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Scott Olewiler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1193
  • Trust me, it will be loud enough.
    • 4th Street Sound
Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 08:08:35 am »

The biggest obstacle, as was already mentioned, from a quality standpoint is the inability to delay your fill speakers.  This will cause BIG problems with intelligibility and coherence.

Since the stage is one of the long edges of the tents I would assume the fill speakers are going to be on stage next to the mains, only pointing outward to cover the far left and right seats. Does he really need to delay those? They would be functioning more like a very wide splay and I would think if they just kept the level at a low enough point that they were only operating as fills and weren't bleeding into the main coverage area they'd be fine and would actual enhance intelligiblity for those seats if you kept the lower fequencies out of them.

I would still take them back with the amps and get two of the best powered speakers you could afford instead or at least take two of them back and get a 31 band EQ.

But if you're not going to do that, I have worked with the PR15s personally and find that for the price point they sound surprising very good, especially on vocals, which is apparently mostly what youll be running through this system, based on the limited mics you have. I've put a full band thru them with mic'd drum kit with no issues. I'm sure I've worked with a lot more low end gear in the recent past than most of the other members and have lower criteria (closer to the average listener) of what sounds good. I'm sure they will sound fine to your audience, but for the money you spent on the speakers and amps (I'm guessing just shy of $1200) you probably could have gotten two powered speakers that sound better.

Bill,

It looks to me like this package was assembled to fit into a particular budget, rather than to get the best sound possible. Sometimes that's the only option, and I think you could have done worse for the little bit of money you did spend.  You will most likely be replacing all this gear, which will have very low resale value, down the road, and you probably want to start with a proper digital mixer as the first new piece.
Logged
We're here to deliver the sound equipment. Who has the check?

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9056
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 08:45:29 am »

Evidence?  Other than experience, no.  I know the sign over my desk "in God we trust all others bring data"

I should have said higher power amplifiers.  In my experience.  Mostly with different generation xti's when running close to the 10 or 12 amps RMS at 120V.

Once you move to the higher voltage the amp runs cooler. 

Now that I actually expand on the statement it is not universal.  If you have good clean power, an outlet that can provide a continuous 15A and your crest is not exceeding that it probably makes no difference.

Maybe I should just retract while i am ahead.
If you are talking about one amp vs another-that is a completely different thing.

And how cool they run is not based solely on output power.  The particular"class" of amp makes a big difference-as does the size of the heatsink-cooling "style" and so forth.

And when ones says "cooler" what does that mean?  The actual operating temp of the inside of the amp or the external chassis?  The inside components are what matter most.  Heck the color of the amp can make a huge difference outside on a sunny day.

I was talking about amp model XYZ when run off of 120V vs xYZ when run off of 240V when running the same output level. 

There should be little to no difference in how cool they run.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Lee Buckalew

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1340
  • St. Louis, MO area
    • Pro Sound Advice, Inc.
Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 11:11:07 am »

Since the stage is one of the long edges of the tents I would assume the fill speakers are going to be on stage next to the mains, only pointing outward to cover the far left and right seats. Does he really need to delay those? They would be functioning more like a very wide splay and I would think if they just kept the level at a low enough point that they were only operating as fills and weren't bleeding into the main coverage area they'd be fine and would actual enhance intelligiblity for those seats if you kept the lower fequencies out of them.


If this were the intent, which we don't know since we have been given no diagram, then delay would not be the problem but a pair of boxes not built to array being placed as an array would be. 

Beyond that, playing the stage on the long wall will more significantly limit seating than playing it on the short wall.  Sight lines, if the stage is on the long wall and seating is allowed "next to" the stage, will force them to move speakers on poles back toward the tent wall behind the stage.  If the stage were on the short wall it would be easier to ensure that there was no seating next to the stage.

Bottom line.  All of the equipment has been purchased.  The gate is being closed after the horse got out.

Lee
Logged
Lee Buckalew
Pro Sound Advice, Inc.

Bill Harvey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2015, 11:28:14 am »

Bill,

It looks to me like this package was assembled to fit into a particular budget, rather than to get the best sound possible. Sometimes that's the only option, and I think you could have done worse for the little bit of money you did spend.  You will most likely be replacing all this gear, which will have very low resale value, down the road, and you probably want to start with a proper digital mixer as the first new piece.

Yes, exactly. Their initial budget was (don't laugh) ~$3K. Well, they bumped up a little more, and Dad has a credit card and a soft spot for his daughter, so we're up around the ~$5-6K range. The ministry is funded by donations, and right now they're trying to grow a building fund. Once they get a permanent building, I have lots better stuff in mind like the digital mixer and snake, etc., etc. (I've learned quite a bit just browsing these forums.)

The board, poor as it is, has some EQ and 5 channels with compressors, so we have some capability there even if the quality isn't the greatest. It's obviously limited with only two monitor sends, but it does fill the near-term requirements. Dad might have to spring for a couple EQs, though. I think we'll be needing them rather quickly...  ;D  Something like the Behringer Ultragraph Pro FBQ6200 be okay? And I'll probably need three?

And thanks for that info, Lee. I'll see if I can get them to re-orient...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 11:37:32 am by Bill Harvey »
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Sound Reinforcement System for Small Religious Venue Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2015, 11:28:14 am »


Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.114 seconds with 22 queries.