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[Tim Tyler]

Nils -

Nice report, thanks.  I did a similar job for a friend's band - I was mixing on my x32 (iPad) and supplementing his gear with mine, basically bringing the mixer and some cables, etc.  He brought a nice pair of powered EAW tops (12" + horn) and a single powered 15" sub.  I knew the sub was too "light" so I replaced his sub with a pair of Yorkville single 18" subs and an iNuke 6k amp. (non dsp)

On the x32 channels I activated the Mono out on the playback (aux channels 5,6), kick, keys, bass and baritone sax channels, linked the "M/C depends on main LR" on the x32, set the mono fader to unity, then set the amp to mono, low pass on (100 hz or so...) and the sensitivity knobs to 12 o'clock (lucky guess!) and got a good top/sub balance, with the added (main...) benefit of keeping all the open mics not listed above out of the subs.  The show ended up very good.

Cheers,

-Tim T

[Scott Olewiler]

I had a fun gig last night, kind of relevant to this thread.

It was mixing a 6 piece band on the patio of a restaurant for a convention after-party.  The rig, I am sure, looked a little scary for the back patio of this place.  An SRX725 over a TH115 per side.  However, it was a smaller footprint than a tripod, and there were supposed to eventually be up to 300 people, though the patio looked like it would hold 50.

When the band started as people were just coming in, I had the main fader at -10 on the desk, no sub, and mostly vocals, and light keys in the PA.  It was quiet, maybe only 90 dB, C weighted, 20 feet in front of the PA.  They were playing in a restrained manner... we are a team in this regard.

Once people had a couple of drinks and started digging the tunes and dancing, the band played harder, and a couple of other things got added to the mains, like bass and some kick, and some guitar.  The subs came up a bit. We were at around 98 dB, with some small peaks over 100. 

By the end of the evening, everyone was dancing (maybe 50-70 people, with another 150 around the restaurant and outside areas), the subs were up and kicking with keys, bass, kick, and toms in them, and a nice full mix.  100 db, C weighted, from my mix spot 20 feet out or so, with nice bass and kick. The main fader never moved, btw.

The restaurant manager was stoked (and had previously expressed nervousness over the size of the speakers), the audience loved it, the band was happy.  This was easy to do for me with the subs on an aux, perhaps because of how I am used to working.  I wasn't constantly adjusting filters to bring in individual instruments to the subs.  There was no haystack (hard to get that, really, with one sub per side), which I don't like anyway.

Yes, this takes more fine tuning over time and you really have to know your system well to avoid the pitfalls.  And you could do it another way with similar results.  But I do dig have the gas pedal for the subs on a single fader in a situation like this one as I can very quickly add or subtract to what might most bother or make the client happy.

In my estimation, people that make this kind of set up sound disjointed have trouble making things sound natural in the best case scenarios as well.  And perhaps that is what John and Stu are saying as well, regarding the experience level of operators.

Anyway, hopefully that is helpful Alan.  Good luck with your gigs and your system.

Nils

Nils,

Also thanks.

First argument for aux fed subs that has ever made any real sense to me. Oddly enough, I just did my first gig ever last Saturday where I wished I had remote control over my sub level. Mixing on ipad only and walking to stage to adjust sub level would have been to disturbing to the event. Soon as get more then 6 auxes I may actually give this a try.

But...., just to play devils advocate doesn't adjusting sub level during show affect acoustic crossover and therefore correct alignment delay? just sayin'

[Nils Erickson]

But...., just to play devils advocate doesn't adjusting sub level during show affect acoustic crossover and therefore correct alignment delay? just sayin'

Scott,
Well... acoustic crossover, yes.  But so what? To me, that sounds a bit like taking 80-100 hz on the graphic eq and bringing it up a little.  If it gets too thick, I just cut it a little.  It typically does not, as I am not using this to do some crazy boost of sub level.  Maybe that is where some get off track...  Also, to be clear, this (acoustic xover point) is something that no one in the audience would ever notice as weird unless you were mixing way far out of balance.

As far as the correct delay goes, the only time I adjust this is when my tops aren't lined up with my subs; for instance, if the tops stack on the stage, and the subs are a couple of feet in front.  Then I will delay the subs to align with the tops.  But I don't change the delay time of my subs if there is simply a little more level from them or if I have more subs along on the show.  Maybe I am misunderstanding your question?

Anyway, all of this stuff can be measured (or just listened to) at your shop, or home or wherever you work on your rig.  Test it and make it work before the gig obviously.  Then you will know in advance if something "sounds out of alignment" or the crossover point sounds odd.  At that point you can simply switch your drive rack settings and move on with the show.

Cheers,
Nils

[Nils Erickson]

On the x32 channels I activated the Mono out on the playback (aux channels 5,6), kick, keys, bass and baritone sax channels, linked the "M/C depends on main LR" on the x32, set the mono fader to unity, then set the amp to mono, low pass on (100 hz or so...) and the sensitivity knobs to 12 o'clock (lucky guess!) and got a good top/sub balance, with the added (main...) benefit of keeping all the open mics not listed above out of the subs.  The show ended up very good.

Cheers,

-Tim T

Bingo!  Sounds like a good gig Tim!  Can't forget the most important tool, our ears...

Cheers,
Nils

[Jerome Malsack]

Ok Lets look at this some more, 

I am using a DBX drive rack PA with two inputs.  To run a Aux fed sub how would you configure and would the subs still be processed inside the drive rack.  Would you be running mono to one input and the Aux fed to the other input ?

[David Morison]

Ok Lets look at this some more, 

I am using a DBX drive rack PA with two inputs.  To run a Aux fed sub how would you configure and would the subs still be processed inside the drive rack.  Would you be running mono to one input and the Aux fed to the other input ?

Withough obtaining another crossover of some kind, that's the only way it might work, yes.
CAVEAT - I've read (in passing) that the DRPA was less flexible in terms of routing architecture than some other DSP's, so i'm not guaranteeing that it will work, only that that's the only possible way of doing it with a single, two input device.

[Mike Karseboom]

Ok Lets look at this some more, 

I am using a DBX drive rack PA with two inputs.  To run a Aux fed sub how would you configure and would the subs still be processed inside the drive rack.  Would you be running mono to one input and the Aux fed to the other input ?

Jerome - I used to do this with the DRPA and still sometimes do with the dR260 when I only have one in the rack.  Here is a (hopefully) a link to a previous post with some step by step setup.  Look for post by me a ways down into the thread:


http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,141611.msg1311748.html#msg1311748

[Don Boomer]

Ok Lets look at this some more, 

I am using a DBX drive rack PA with two inputs. 

Your setup would need to be in mono if you have only 2 inputs.  Nothing wrong with that.

But if you wanted  a stereo input, running aux fed subs requires 3 inputs.

http://peavey.com/support/technotes/concepts/AUX_SUBs.pdf

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