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Author Topic: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network  (Read 12143 times)

Scott Helmke

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 04:40:47 pm »

Just reading between the lines - is the intent to split up one managed switch into two VLANs for primary and redundant without having to buy a second switch?

If so, that's a single point of failure.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 06:40:14 pm »

I think you better re-read my post Scott. I didn't mention anywhere in my post which layer 802.1q was applicable to, but good for you knowing that if it's a bridging protocol it belongs on layer 2. You count the OSI model layers from the bottom up, so that would be the DATALINK layer in case you're wondering.

No hostility intended but you did say:

Quote
Generally speaking I have not seen a time when intercommunication between two LANs is not, or has not, become a requirement. In the case where this requirement needs to be met then TRUNKING must be applied. With certain switches this means the use of a router.


To me in this paragraph you associated trunking and routing.  While you can certainly create a trunk port to a router it is not a requirement and it does not participate in the IP packet forwarding process.

An equally valid configuration would be to have an untagged port in each VLAN connected to an interface on a router.  If you are going to be routing any latency sensitive traffic this is in fact the preferred design.  If both VLAN's are trunked on the same PHY the router is a "one armed bandit" and the packets have to ingress and egress the same interface.  This adds undesired latency.

For management purposes this is not relevant, only latency sensitive traffic.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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Bob Leonard

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2015, 10:43:14 pm »

Trunking of large scale networks will often require routing (layer 3), and additional switches (layer 2), and as I said, "with certain switches". Configuring trunking may require an additional switch. We can converse forever on the benefits and scenarios Riley may encounter, however, he hasn't replied with his actual needs other than the initial post, and until seeing more detail I would probably feel a secure WAP utilizing WPA2 would be his best configuration at this point. Certainly a flat network of the size he'll implement won't produce enough traffic to create a bottleneck if a decent switch is used.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 12:24:25 am »

Trunking of large scale networks will often require routing (layer 3), and additional switches (layer 2), and as I said, "with certain switches". Configuring trunking may require an additional switch. We can converse forever on the benefits and scenarios Riley may encounter, however, he hasn't replied with his actual needs other than the initial post, and until seeing more detail I would probably feel a secure WAP utilizing WPA2 would be his best configuration at this point. Certainly a flat network of the size he'll implement won't produce enough traffic to create a bottleneck if a decent switch is used.

That's all well beyond the scope, I don't know what your level of network expertise is.  I was just making sure the primary concept of tagging and untagging was clear.  After all I never mentioned .1q as it is well beyond the scope of the original question.

Until he answers we won't know if he needs two isolated collision domains for the Dante and Management traffic.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
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Riley Casey

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2015, 11:29:40 am »

Wow,  I love how PSW can start to become 4chan if given enough time. :P

Thanks for all the interesting and apparently conflicting suggestions.  Yes, the original intent was to create separate networks over the same connection path ( fiber generally ) between the console end switches and the stage end RIO boxes.  We routinely run multiple consoles and multiple RIO boxes in separate locations and often separate rooms for corporate events.  It can often be helpful for me as system tech to connect to the control port of a console and make configuration changes during set up to a console 500 ft and two stories apart.  Yamaha and Audinate emphasize keeping any network that might see wifi traffic apart from any network that handles Dante traffic and thus the interest in vLan set ups.

 I wouldn't normally run a vlan configuration to allow both primary and secondary Dante networks as we are configured with separate switches in all our console and RIO racks.  If how ever I had a switch fail or for some other reason had only a single switch available I would have no compunction about running primary and secondary on a vlan split switch as the redundant cabling is to me the real safety net more so than the redundant switches.  Of course the most scary part of any of the networking hardware we use are the cheesy 12 VDC wall wart plugs on the switches.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:26:46 pm by Riley Casey »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2015, 11:59:24 am »

Do they say why no WIFI traffic other than security?
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2015, 12:01:50 pm »

Wow,  I love how PSW can start to become 4chan if given enough time. :P

Thanks for all the interesting and apparently conflicting suggestions.  Yes, the original intent was to create separate networks over the same connection path ( fiber generally ) between the console end switches and the stage end RIO boxes.  We routinely run multiple consoles and multiple RIO boxes in separate locations and often separate rooms for corporate events.  It can often be helpful for me as system tech to connect to the control port of a console and make configuration changes during set up to a console 500 ft and two stories apart.  Yamaha and Audinate emphasis keeping any network that might see wifi traffic apart from any network that handles Dante traffic and thus the interest in vLan set ups.

 I wouldn't normally run a vlan configuration to allow both primary and secondary Dante networks as we are configured with separate switches in all our console and RIO racks.  If how ever I had a switch fail or for some other reason had only a single switch available I would have no compunction about running primary and secondary on a vlan split switch as the redundant cabling is to me the real safety net more so than the redundant switches.  Of course the most scary part of any of the networking hardware we use are the cheesy 12 VDC wall wart plugs on the switches.

Glad for the clarification Riley.   My day job is a network engineer FYI.

Enterprise switches don't have wall warts.  Good ones have provisions for redundant power supplies.  The Cisco 300, while being about the best affordable switch for the masses is hardly an enterprise switch.

You can take this pretty.  Far.  We can run a protected management network that would be able to access all of the networks.  For devices that don't support routing we can do creative NAT.  Between redundant runs and Enterprise grade switches (BTW would not go with Cisco, way too expensive.  Juniper and HP Procurve are my Enterprise value points currently).

I would love to be part of a project that combines my network expertise and my love for live production.  If you want to exchange some network diagrams I would be glad to document my suggestions for your consideration.

Just shoot me a PM.  In any case, sounds like a great project and good luck.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: VPN set up for running Yamaha console control on a Dante network
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2015, 12:01:50 pm »


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