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Author Topic: live performance/ movie theater install  (Read 3771 times)

Todd Leighty

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live performance/ movie theater install
« on: January 13, 2015, 11:18:21 am »

Hello all,
I have been a long time reader but just registered to post
I have been asked to look over a bid package for a local live performance/movie theatre install. Complete gutted remodel project
Most of the install looks appropriate for everything they want to do but i question the choice of mains and want to see what the PSW collective thought.
It was spec'd as a LCR hang with left and right having 3 qsc KLA's and then 2 KLA's for center
the space is  50' x50' with a slight sloped floor for the first 30' then stadium seating the last 20'.
vertical coverage needs to be 55-60 degree. plan pics included.
Again this space will be used as a live venue as well as a movie theater so I understand the need for LCR just looking for opinions on equipment. it is also spec'd with 2 installed KW subs and 2 portable KW subs to be used at center behind screen for movies. I was thinking this may be a job for Danley but looking for all opinions.
The board of directors expressed it to me as this ( We want a Buick not a Kia but we can't afford a Cadillac)
I am not bidding on the project I am just local tech trying to help them make the right choices.
thank you for your time.
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Todd Leighty

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2015, 11:26:20 am »

second plan pic
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John L Nobile

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2015, 12:34:52 pm »

Funny you should mention Danley.

I just installed a nice projector and a 200" diag screen in our showroom. Head office's mandate was to be able to show movies to resort guests when the weather is bad. Our house PA is a pair of Danley SH96HO's and 2 DBH218's. I gotta say that it sounds incredible. I've never seen a movie that sounded that good. The clarity and low end effects are stunning.  I may never go to a theater again.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 01:15:20 pm »

When you say "live performance" what does that mean?

Basically-how loud does it need to go?

Are you planning on having loud shows (Heavy metal) or shows that have a lot of low freq (EDM) etc.

Each of those can put stresses on a system that other forms of "live" music may not.

But it will cost more to have a system that can do those types of acts.

When designing a system the basic steps are (and they HAVE to be in this order to have a well DESIGNED system-not just some speakers stuck in a room.

1: What is the coverage of the system needed?  In an LCR setup EACH of the separate systems has to cover the whole room or else there will be seats that will be missing information.  How important is it to give the same experience to everybody?

2: How LOUD/LOW does the system need to go?

3: What is the BUDGET?

3: After you have identified the first steps, THEN and ONLY THEN can you start to look at products that meet the needs.

It does not matter how loud a system can get if it does not cover the room or is out of budget.  It does not matter how well a system covers if it is not loud enough

Just because somebody says  "Well XYZ speakers are great" does NOT mean they are right for YOUR room-even though they work well for some other venue and type of music.

If you don't define the goal of the system-how do you know if the proposed system will do the job?

A "family car" that can only hold 3 kids in the back seat is no good to a family that has 4 kids.  You need a different car for a different family.

Just some things to think about.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Mac Kerr

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 04:49:30 pm »

Again this space will be used as a live venue as well as a movie theater so I understand the need for LCR just looking for opinions on equipment. it is also spec'd with 2 installed KW subs and 2 portable KW subs to be used at center behind screen for movies.
If the LCR setup is to have 3.1 movie playback, the center channel needs to be the same as LR. As Ivan pointed out, all 3 speaker systems need to have 100% coverage of the audience. If the center is not for the movie side, what is its purpose?

Why the KLAs? They are a fixed curvature array that will only have a fixed coverage that might be achieved better with a single speaker.

Using the same system for both live and movies might be tricky with the speakers close to the proscenium if the orch pit is covered with stage deck for live performances, the speakers will be pretty far upstage of the downstage edge. If the speakers are moved downstage to not cover the pit area they will lose their connection to the screen for movies.

Mac
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2015, 05:47:51 pm »


Hello all,
I have been a long time reader but just registered to post
I have been asked to look over a bid package for a local live performance/movie theatre install. Complete gutted remodel project
Most of the install looks appropriate for everything they want to do but i question the choice of mains and want to see what the PSW collective thought.
It was spec'd as a LCR hang with left and right having 3 qsc KLA's and then 2 KLA's for center
the space is  50' x50' with a slight sloped floor for the first 30' then stadium seating the last 20'.
vertical coverage needs to be 55-60 degree. plan pics included.
Again this space will be used as a live venue as well as a movie theater so I understand the need for LCR just looking for opinions on equipment. it is also spec'd with 2 installed KW subs and 2 portable KW subs to be used at center behind screen for movies. I was thinking this may be a job for Danley but looking for all opinions.
The board of directors expressed it to me as this ( We want a Buick not a Kia but we can't afford a Cadillac)
I am not bidding on the project I am just local tech trying to help them make the right choices.
thank you for your time.

Ok - we JUST opened a theater in February that has a section view almost identical to yours.  We installed 3 danley sh100b LCR. Two th112 below the stage.  I can send you our bid package if you are interested.

Console is a yamaha cl3, but that's because of our big live sound component. 

I can't put into words how good the theater sounds after Ivan did the tuning. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Cailen Waddell

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Todd Leighty

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 09:37:12 pm »

Hi guys thanks for the feedback so far

Ivan
as far as "live performance" This is a small town performance space. so think community theatre,acoustic acts, comedy, maybe some local rock groups. I cant see any thing on the extreme end of things like heavy metal or EDM shows and if so they are installing an onstage 400 amp dedicated power tie-in so additional system can be added or tour systems handled.

I didnt design this system. it was designed by a local "professional" and I was asked to look over and see what I thought since I  work in most of the performance facilities in the area and manage all the performance spaces and events for the local school district.

1. As far as coverage ideal situation would be everyone covered equally. The design I believe for LCR was to serve as part of a 7.1 surround system, there are 4 speakers spec'd ( two for each side wall) for surrounds. The first thing that jumped out at me was using 3boxes for LR(90x54 coverage) but then C only be two boxes (90x 36) seemed strange to me.

2.  The system should never have to be pushed to extreme levels I would say coverage over SPL as far as importance. A larger system could be brought in if needed.

3. They were quoted 80k by the system designer which included the main audio system, a small video distro system and production intercoms. The quote seemed high for what they were getting and is why I was asked to look at it.

I am by no means a system designer and dont claim to me but as an end user of a lot of poorly designed systems I knew things didnt seem right with the system in design or price.

Mac,
I am not sure why he chose the KLA's when i think a single cab with the same coverage pattern would be a better fit especially with the low ceiling height.
As for the hang location I thought about that too.

Cailen,
anything you can send me would be great, It looks like you guys have exactly what we are trying to build here.
 








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Cailen Waddell

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 11:45:47 am »


Hi guys thanks for the feedback so far

Ivan
as far as "live performance" This is a small town performance space. so think community theatre,acoustic acts, comedy, maybe some local rock groups. I cant see any thing on the extreme end of things like heavy metal or EDM shows and if so they are installing an onstage 400 amp dedicated power tie-in so additional system can be added or tour systems handled.

I didnt design this system. it was designed by a local "professional" and I was asked to look over and see what I thought since I  work in most of the performance facilities in the area and manage all the performance spaces and events for the local school district.

1. As far as coverage ideal situation would be everyone covered equally. The design I believe for LCR was to serve as part of a 7.1 surround system, there are 4 speakers spec'd ( two for each side wall) for surrounds. The first thing that jumped out at me was using 3boxes for LR(90x54 coverage) but then C only be two boxes (90x 36) seemed strange to me.

2.  The system should never have to be pushed to extreme levels I would say coverage over SPL as far as importance. A larger system could be brought in if needed.

3. They were quoted 80k by the system designer which included the main audio system, a small video distro system and production intercoms. The quote seemed high for what they were getting and is why I was asked to look at it.

I am by no means a system designer and dont claim to me but as an end user of a lot of poorly designed systems I knew things didnt seem right with the system in design or price.

Mac,
I am not sure why he chose the KLA's when i think a single cab with the same coverage pattern would be a better fit especially with the low ceiling height.
As for the hang location I thought about that too.

Cailen,
anything you can send me would be great, It looks like you guys have exactly what we are trying to build here.

Todd,

PM me your email address.  Also fwiw, we spent far far far more than 80k.  Lighting and sound we spent I would guess (prime bid, so I don't know sub bids) 300k including electrical distribution but not the electrician or wire, but including relay and sequencing panels.  Anyway in a new venue with new HVAC, the reduced heat load from LEDs can often more than offset the additional costs of the LED fixtures. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Todd Leighty

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 12:20:47 pm »

Cailen
When you mentioned the CL3 I knew we where in different ball parks as far as budget.
 The lighting quote is another 120k, they are looking at LED houselights, pars, and cyc. Everything else is standard ETC S4 ERS's but plenty of data and power distro to handle more LED's down the line.
I don't agree with some of the lighting spec either (done by the same guy) but that's a whole different issue.
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eric lenasbunt

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Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 12:11:53 am »


Hi guys thanks for the feedback so far



Mac,
I am not sure why he chose the KLA's when i think a single cab with the same coverage pattern would be a better fit especially with the low ceiling height.

Because either A) that's what he has in stock, or B) that's what he has the best mark up on
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: live performance/ movie theater install
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 12:11:53 am »


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