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Author Topic: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line  (Read 105565 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #240 on: May 26, 2015, 04:46:00 pm »

Yes, I would agree that a stinger cap and a stock GFCI should provide sufficient protection against any failure mechanism I can think of.
 

You are probably right with this statement.  Its the electrician side of me (especially when I spend a significant portion of my time dealing with 480) that feels a whole lot better with that air gap that I can see! 

What about a third party aftermarket modification of an existing power strip?  The quantities you are talking likely could be done by hand-and simply adding the correct cap could be done in 5-10 minutes tops if the correct power strip design was chosen to start with and a little practice.  You could teach someone to do it almost as quickly, a plug in test jig to verify and away you go.   Still no UL listing of course.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #241 on: May 27, 2015, 12:10:32 pm »

You are probably right with this statement.  Its the electrician side of me (especially when I spend a significant portion of my time dealing with 480) that feels a whole lot better with that air gap that I can see! 

What about a third party aftermarket modification of an existing power strip?  The quantities you are talking likely could be done by hand-and simply adding the correct cap could be done in 5-10 minutes tops if the correct power strip design was chosen to start with and a little practice.  You could teach someone to do it almost as quickly, a plug in test jig to verify and away you go.   Still no UL listing of course.

IIRC you don't need a UL listing to sell a power strip, unless you're selling them to labs, government facilities and offices that REQUIRE UL listed gear. I've done this exact sort of thing a few times in the past where I modified a power strip with reversed back-to-back zener diodes to make a 5-volt ground loop lifter. Yikes!!!
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #242 on: May 27, 2015, 01:03:04 pm »

IIRC you don't need a UL listing to sell a power strip, unless you're selling them to labs, government facilities and offices that REQUIRE UL listed gear. I've done this exact sort of thing a few times in the past where I modified a power strip with reversed back-to-back zener diodes to make a 5-volt ground loop lifter. Yikes!!!
Yes, BUT.... If you ever end up in court being sued by the family of a dead muso, having UL sitting at your table in court as the expert witness is useful. Better than them testifying against you.

While i am not enthusiastic about spending $10k (or whatever to open a file) IMO it is worth dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

Back in my Peavey days I'd just ask the in house guy to ask them... I may have to do that myself.

JR
 
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #243 on: June 09, 2015, 03:06:35 pm »

I submitted a question to UL via their website about the stinger GFCI and no response... I'm shocked.

=========

I mentioned in passing that I am working on an outlet tester with a single touch contact.

I have 3 of the 4 colored LED indications working... I'll give more details after I get the 4th going.

JR

PS: First thing i'm going to do with this is test all my outlets.
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Don Boomer

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #244 on: June 09, 2015, 06:53:44 pm »


Back in my Peavey days I'd just ask the in house guy to ask them.

Do you suppose they have one anymore  ;) ;) ;)
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Don Boomer
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #245 on: June 09, 2015, 07:37:30 pm »

Do you suppose they have one anymore  ;) ;) ;)
I've been gone from there longer than you... you tell me.  8)

JR
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #246 on: June 10, 2015, 01:48:52 pm »

Update ... Time to stick a fork in rev two... another fail. The three sense LEDs work to detect hot outlet contacts but they only flash momentarily when the touch contact is touched. I can make it light steady with 3 separate touch contacts but that is too awkward and IMO unreliable.

I already have a new strategy for rev 3...

This is pretty interesting design territory for me... I can't even use my scope to see what's going on because the scope needs to be grounded and it's 1-10 megOhm input impedance would affect the circuits.

I did use this tester as is to test the outlets in my house and as expected none were grounded, and most (not all) were correct polarity.

More later... I need to melt more solder on rev 3.

JR
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #247 on: June 13, 2015, 12:04:27 am »

Update...  rev 3 is disappointing..

I may fall back to using 3 separate touch contacts.

JR

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Mike Sokol

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #248 on: June 14, 2015, 11:25:06 am »

Update...  rev 3 is disappointing..

I may fall back to using 3 separate touch contacts.

JR

JR... All of the experiments and schematics I've played with suggest that the cross-talk from a single contact would be problematic. So 3 separate touch contacts is probably the correct path.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #249 on: June 14, 2015, 02:13:10 pm »

JR... All of the experiments and schematics I've played with suggest that the cross-talk from a single contact would be problematic. So 3 separate touch contacts is probably the correct path.

Thanks... designing an accurate outlet checker is proving a bunch harder than most such circuits, and I am fairly well versed in discrete design.

Yes, I know 3 separate touch circuits will work (I'm pretty sure) based on the same circuit I used as a start-up switch for my smart outlet.

When (if) I give up on making a single touch contact work, that 3 separate contacts approach will be my fall back position.

Last night during my nightly beer fueled circuit analysis session I resolved that I gave up too soon on version 3, so today I will revisit that with a few minor changes. Rev 3 was almost working.

more later...

JR
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Re: brain storm an optimal human safety system for back line
« Reply #249 on: June 14, 2015, 02:13:10 pm »


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