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Author Topic: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?  (Read 38674 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2018, 07:11:37 pm »

Early Klipsh?  Or DIY similar?  I remember that was popular "back in the day".
Knowing my dad (not as much as I'd like), I suspect it was a commercial box, not hifi... Did Klipsch use cast iron segmented horns, I seem to recall some pretty wood segmented horns?  Klipsch was big about corner loading, but my dad used a normal box, just stuck into a corner (not perfectly aligned, roughly in the corner and angled up, so strong boundary coupling was perhaps compromised on more than one axis).   
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In the '60s my dad found some very thin EVs with whizzers that he mounted in the wall, using the stud space as an infinite baffle.  My mom put picture frames with burlap and a couple plastic plants for decoration over them.  A KnightKit amp with 2 EL84s per channel sounded loud to me in those days.
Yes.. back in the day speakers valued efficiency.   

Amplifiers were often single digit watts.

JR

PS: I recall messing with a solid state knightkit amp (30W?) back in the 60's that looked very much like a tube design using interstage transformers, but with early transistors literally dropped in place of the tubes.. (not very clever).

 
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Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Art Welter

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2018, 03:06:30 pm »

I heard someone recently use this trick for a guitar sound, unfortunately you end up with multiple delays and a very filtered sound so I suspect even if it were tried, it was likely unsuccessful, at least in terms of a standard delay.  Soundwise it was reminiscent of several tannoy horns around a school field with added resonance and top rolling off from about 1k.
Roland,

The original 1971 Cooper Time Cube was a UREI-branded, Bill Putman/Duane H. Cooper collaborative design that used a garden-hose type tube with Shure SM-57 elements as send and receive transducers.
It could do 14ms, 16ms or a combined 30ms delay, and did not sound much like your description, which may have been using too much hose..

The Cooper Time Cube was not commercially very successful, about 1000 units made, tape based delays like the Echoplex and later Roland "Space Echo" were more flexible and portable, and not prone to acoustical feedback in loud environments.

Art
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Art Welter

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2018, 03:44:12 pm »

Knowing my dad (not as much as I'd like), I suspect it was a commercial box, not hifi... Did Klipsch use cast iron segmented horns, I seem to recall some pretty wood segmented horns? 
JR,
I have yet to encounter a cast iron horn, though cast aluminum horns with big Alnico drivers can seem heavy enough that you would think they were made of iron.

Altec-Lansing multi-cell horns were made of sheet iron (the throat adapters were made from non-ferrous metals) and backed with a tar coat, so gave the appearance of cast iron.

Don't recall any Klipsch segmented horns.
"Smith" DSH (distributed source horn) segmented horns were often made with very pretty wood, though the standard JBL version used MDF and pine.

Plans for the DSH were in the January 1951 Popular Mechanics magazine, there were probably thousands made in workshops all over the world, some used on top of Karlson cabinets, plans for the 12" in the July 1958 issue.

Art
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2018, 03:53:04 pm »

Roland,

The original 1971 Cooper Time Cube was a UREI-branded, Bill Putman/Duane H. Cooper collaborative design that used a garden-hose type tube with Shure SM-57 elements as send and receive transducers.
It could do 14ms, 16ms or a combined 30ms delay, and did not sound much like your description, which may have been using too much hose..

The Cooper Time Cube was not commercially very successful, about 1000 units made, tape based delays like the Echoplex and later Roland "Space Echo" were more flexible and portable, and not prone to acoustical feedback in loud environments.

Art
Yup old school "acoustic" time delay, sounded pretty much like you would expect.

======

@ Art, yes horn could have been cast aluminum, but was painted so hard to tell... I would lean toward Altec Lansing, based on my dad's connections with early movie stuff... at the time he was working for RCA as a recording engineer but we also had a Muzak receiver hooked up to the hifi system from another of his sundry industry jobs. In the basement I found an old western Electric amplifier (dad worked there too). A 19" eia rack several feet high making probably single digit watts. 

JR
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Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Art Welter

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2018, 06:08:23 pm »

Art, yes horn could have been cast aluminum, but was painted so hard to tell... I would lean toward Altec Lansing, based on my dad's connections with early movie stuff... at the time he was working for RCA as a recording engineer but we also had a Muzak receiver hooked up to the hifi system from another of his sundry industry jobs. In the basement I found an old western Electric amplifier (dad worked there too). A 19" eia rack several feet high making probably single digit watts. 

JR
JR,
With a Western Electric amp in the basement, working for RCA, the speakers could have been (relatively) old RCA.
Western Electric and RCA were the real deal in early theater loudspeaker systems, JBL (James B. Lansing) and later Altec-Lansing (All the Techs from Lansing) just copied and made incremental improvements on RCA/Western Electric designs.

As usual, nothing changes too much ;^).

Art
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2018, 10:38:21 pm »

If you think cast iron is bad, the guy who made my band's PA in the mid '70s made some horns out of concrete.  Concept was that they wouldn't ring as much as cast aluminum.  We had his prototypes.  250lbs each.  He pared it down to a bit under 200 for the ones he did concerts with in the Honolulu International Center arena.  Moving those every night.  ::)
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2018, 05:36:59 pm »

... made incremental improvements on RCA/Western Electric designs.

I had a pair of those giant RCA horns and drivers for awhile.  Traded them for some other stuff I don't use....

Guess some audiophiles still value them.

Dave
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2018, 10:42:53 pm »

Roland,

The original 1971 Cooper Time Cube was a UREI-branded, Bill Putman/Duane H. Cooper collaborative design that used a garden-hose type tube with Shure SM-57 elements as send and receive transducers.
It could do 14ms, 16ms or a combined 30ms delay, and did not sound much like your description, which may have been using too much hose..

The Cooper Time Cube was not commercially very successful, about 1000 units made, tape based delays like the Echoplex and later Roland "Space Echo" were more flexible and portable, and not prone to acoustical feedback in loud environments.

Art

I just Googled that, inside the the "Time Cube" looked like a science fair project.

You can buy it as a plug in now.

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2018, 09:31:45 am »

I just Googled that, inside the the "Time Cube" looked like a science fair project.
It was what it was. Pure delay was hard to come by back in the day... A spring reverb would give you maybe 25-30mSec of initial delay but then all those repeats. Tape echo was probably the highest quality delay but far from easy to use.
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You can buy it as a plug in now.
Now operating in the digital domain, with dirt cheap memory, delay is essentially free. The first digital delay sold by a Dr Lee of MIT (Lexicon) cost something like $5,000 for 20mSec with not many bits or bandwidth but you always have to start somewhere.

I did a lot of work with charge coupled devices (like bucket brigade chips) to make analog delays. These ruled the roost until digital delay got less expensive (anyone remember delta modulation?).

JR
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Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Mike Caldwell

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2018, 09:50:53 am »

It was what it was. Pure delay was hard to come by back in the day... A spring reverb would give you maybe 25-30mSec of initial delay but then all those repeats. Tape echo was probably the highest quality delay but far from easy to use. Now operating in the digital domain, with dirt cheap memory, delay is essentially free. The first digital delay sold by a Dr Lee of MIT (Lexicon) cost something like $5,000 for 20mSec with not many bits or bandwidth but you always have to start somewhere.

I did a lot of work with charge coupled devices (like bucket brigade chips) to make analog delays. These ruled the roost until digital delay got less expensive (anyone remember delta modulation?).

JR


Something inside me wants to build a Time Cube like device just to say I tried/did! Like I have free time to do that these days!

Years ago I built a bucket brigade delay out of a project book, it kind of worked when I finished it and passed something that sounded like audio.

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Re: Nuremburg Ralley PA ?
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2018, 09:50:53 am »


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