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Author Topic: Yamaha CL max capacity  (Read 6448 times)

Daniel Wade

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Yamaha CL max capacity
« on: November 26, 2014, 12:15:56 am »

Hello,
I'm doing research on Yamaha CL5 console and haven't found the answer to a question.  I would like to mix monitors from FOH and want the ability to modify the signal to the monitors (EQ mostly) differently than the FOH sound.  Easy answer - get a dedicated monitor board.  I get this but what about just a few channels?

On the CL one can duplicate/patch an input to multiple channels.  Anyone know if duplicating the input to multiple channels affects the maximum mix capacity?

Thanks.
Daniel
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Frederik RosenkjŠr

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2014, 02:51:08 am »

Most digital consoles, including the CL, can do this no problem. It doesn't make any difference to the mix capacity other than taking up an extra channel for each channel you want to have separate control of the monitors, even though both channels are using the same input.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2014, 09:13:39 am »

Double-patching inputs is the second-oldest trick in the book. You're only using up input channels, not mixes or outputs.
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brian maddox

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2014, 09:18:51 am »

Double-patching inputs is the second-oldest trick in the book. You're only using up input channels, not mixes or outputs.

The first oldest is turning the knob on an unpatched channel while looking expectantly at the singer. "How's that?  Better?  Good!"
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2014, 11:40:24 am »

Hello,
I'm doing research on Yamaha CL5 console and haven't found the answer to a question.  I would like to mix monitors from FOH and want the ability to modify the signal to the monitors (EQ mostly) differently than the FOH sound.  Easy answer - get a dedicated monitor board.  I get this but what about just a few channels?

On the CL one can duplicate/patch an input to multiple channels.  Anyone know if duplicating the input to multiple channels affects the maximum mix capacity?

Thanks.
Daniel

Your post never asks the question in the subject line, but in addition to the fact that however many input channels you use it does not affect any of the other capabilities of the console, on a CL-5 you have a maximum of 72 mono input control channels, 8 stereo input control channels (88 audio input paths), and using the matrixes as mixes, 32 aux sends plus stereo and mono outs. A CL-3 reduces the mono inputs to 64, and a CL-1 reduces them to 48, all other features are the same.

Mac
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Daniel Wade

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2014, 12:00:37 pm »

The first oldest is turning the knob on an unpatched channel while looking expectantly at the singer. "How's that?  Better?  Good!"

I love it! Amazing how it actually works so often.
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Daniel Wade

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2014, 12:19:18 pm »

Your post never asks the question in the subject line, but in addition to the fact that however many input channels you use it does not affect any of the other capabilities of the console, on a CL-5 you have a maximum of 72 mono input control channels, 8 stereo input control channels (88 audio input paths), and using the matrixes as mixes, 32 aux sends plus stereo and mono outs. A CL-3 reduces the mono inputs to 64, and a CL-1 reduces them to 48, all other features are the same.

Mac

Thanks all for the responses.  The "audio input paths" is the place of concern.  After reading more last night and thinking about this I thought it was a silly question.

I like the "32 aux send" statement - it makes more sense to me rather than figuring out the subtle differences between between a matrix use case versus a mix use case. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 01:06:14 pm »

Thanks all for the responses.  The "audio input paths" is the place of concern.  After reading more last night and thinking about this I thought it was a silly question.

I like the "32 aux send" statement - it makes more sense to me rather than figuring out the subtle differences between between a matrix use case versus a mix use case.

You need to understand the not-so-subtle differences between matrices and mix sends.  Yamaha and a couple other manufacturers allow inputs to be routed directly to a matrix, giving you the capability to use that matrix as a mix send.  More traditional implementations of matrices have a matrix get its inputs from other mixes (L/R, "groups" or "submasters" etc).  This can be powerful routing and processing facility, but it's not like using matrices as "aux" mix sends.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 03:33:06 pm »

You need to understand the not-so-subtle differences between matrices and mix sends.  Yamaha and a couple other manufacturers allow inputs to be routed directly to a matrix, giving you the capability to use that matrix as a mix send.  More traditional implementations of matrices have a matrix get its inputs from other mixes (L/R, "groups" or "submasters" etc).  This can be powerful routing and processing facility, but it's not like using matrices as "aux" mix sends.


Don't forget that when you send an input channel to a matrix, that it is only post fader, and can not be switched to pre fader like normal aux sends (at least on the CL5).

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Daniel Wade

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2014, 06:19:56 pm »


Don't forget that when you send an input channel to a matrix, that it is only post fader, and can not be switched to pre fader like normal aux sends (at least on the CL5).

Hi Justice,
According to the CL Editor, the "Send Point for Input Channels" is PRE-EQ or PRE-Fader.  I don't have CL in front of me to try this.  I think this means there is no option to send post fader from any source (mix, LR, M or input).  Is the actual behavior on the CL5 different?

This makes using an input in the matrix less usable to me as I think I would generally want all inputs to the matrix (outputs from other sources) to be post fader.

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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 06:35:10 pm »

Hi Justice,
According to the CL Editor, the "Send Point for Input Channels" is PRE-EQ or PRE-Fader.  I don't have CL in front of me to try this.  I think this means there is no option to send post fader from any source (mix, LR, M or input).  Is the actual behavior on the CL5 different?

This makes using an input in the matrix less usable to me as I think I would generally want all inputs to the matrix (outputs from other sources) to be post fader.

There are 3 selections for where the audio pickoff is when sending to the matrixes, Pre eq, Pre fader, or post on which is also post fader. This is clearly shown in the block diagram at the back of the manual.

In "Mixer Setup" in the CL Editor there are 2 selections for sends to Matrix, "Pre Eq" and "Pre Fader", this is only setting the pre point, the pre/post switch next to the mix send control changes the send from whatever "Pre" you have specified and post on (post fader).

Mac
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 06:40:19 pm by Mac Kerr »
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Daniel Wade

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 06:44:27 pm »

There are 3 selections for where the audio pickoff is when sending to the matrixes, Pre eq, Pre fader, or post on which is also post fader. This is clearly shown in the block diagram at the back of the manual.

In "Mixer Setup" in the CL Editor there are 2 selections for sends to Matrix, "Pre Eq" and "Pre Fader", this is only setting the pre point, the pre/post switch next to the mix send control changes the send from whatever "Pre" you have specified and post on (post fader).

Mac

The CL Editor, Reference Manual and YouTube Video all show only 2 options for Matrix.  The Mix bus has 3 options including post fader. I think the manual is incorrect unless the actual CL allows all 3 options for Matrix settings
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 07:09:12 pm »

The CL Editor, Reference Manual and YouTube Video all show only 2 options for Matrix.  The Mix bus has 3 options including post fader. I think the manual is incorrect unless the actual CL allows all 3 options for Matrix settings

I haven't watched the You Tube video, but the manual and CL Editor both have a post fader send from input channels to matrixes. Look at the block diagram at the end of the manual. In the input section look at send to matrix, and notice the switch with all 3 positions. Then go to the editor and look at the selected channel view. In the send to matrix area you will see a pre/post switch. It will switch between post fader and whichever prefader pickoff point you chose in mixer setup.

For what it's worth, I have done this on an actual show.

Here is a LINK to a thread about the show.

Mac
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 07:13:12 pm by Mac Kerr »
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Riley Casey

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 07:22:06 pm »

The editor is attempting to display a lot of functions on a small amount of screen.  Hold the control key ( on a Mac, whatever on Windows ) while clicking the pre/post switch in the selected channel window to see all of the routing options.  If you're really trying to evaluate where to spend $50K + you're gonna have to get out and put you're hands on a console as well as read the user docs and play with the editor.

The CL Editor, Reference Manual and YouTube Video all show only 2 options for Matrix.  The Mix bus has 3 options including post fader. I think the manual is incorrect unless the actual CL allows all 3 options for Matrix settings

Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2014, 07:33:26 pm »

Ok, I had to go upstairs and boot my CL5 and try this myself. And sure enough the input send to the matrices are switchable pre/post fader. And in the Bus Setup window, they have the same pick off point as the regular mix sends (pre EQ, pre fade), with the exception that they do not have the "fixed mix" option.

I seem to be wrong about things regarding my equipment alot lately.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 07:49:30 pm »

Ok, I had to go upstairs and boot my CL5 and try this myself. And sure enough the input send to the matrices are switchable pre/post fader. And in the Bus Setup window, they have the same pick off point as the regular mix sends (pre EQ, pre fade), with the exception that they do not have the "fixed mix" option.

I seem to be wrong about things regarding my equipment alot lately.

Your doctor has pills for that...
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Daniel Wade

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Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 11:59:40 pm »

Ok, I had to go upstairs and boot my CL5 and try this myself. And sure enough the input send to the matrices are switchable pre/post fader. And in the Bus Setup window, they have the same pick off point as the regular mix sends (pre EQ, pre fade), with the exception that they do not have the "fixed mix" option.

I seem to be wrong about things regarding my equipment alot lately.

This is what I saw earlier - I didn't look at the individual channel send only the Bus Setup window.

All this will make more sense when I start using the console in the next couple of weeks (I've only used the basics of the console a couple of times before). 

I really appreciate all of the fantastic input and discussion points.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Yamaha CL max capacity
┬ź Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 11:59:40 pm ┬╗


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