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[g'bye, Dick Rees]

If I had one more DFR I'd probably just insert one on each of my main vocal channels.

Sent from my Moto X(XT1053) using Tapatalk

Sabine Solo works for this.  I pick them up in working condition for $50 or less used.

[Tommy Peel]

Sabine Solo works for this.  I pick them up in working condition for $50 or less used.

Interesting. I'll check them out; not sure I want to put anymore into my analog rig but it might be worth that much.

Sent from my Moto X(XT1053) using Tapatalk

[bob schwarz]

Bink, if you're testing the DFR22, you might compare it to the original DFR11.I've had better luck with it sonically.  Maybe there is something to this.
Bob Schwarz

[Steve Alves]

We have the http://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/ieq31 setup for each monitor channel (two per unit) and have had no issues. This gives us a 31 geq on each monitor channel and the feedback suppression (which if you ring out correctly) you hope to never use.

We replaced our EQ's and AFS224 units with these.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

We have the http://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/ieq31 setup for each monitor channel (two per unit) and have had no issues. This gives us a 31 geq on each monitor channel and the feedback suppression (which if you ring out correctly) you hope to never use.

We replaced our EQ's and AFS224 units with these.

1/3 octave filters are hardly notch filters.

[John Roberts {JR}]

1/3 octave filters are hardly notch filters.

Depending on the environment and/or application you can make the notches too narrow.

IIRC I used 1/6th octave for variable notch filters I added to a monitor console I designed, but the definition for Q of boost/cut sections is not standardized so all 1/3 octave GEQ are not the same.

JR

[Bob L. Wilson]

Here are units I might try to test:
*dbx AFS224
*Yamaha DME64N
*Behringer FBQ2496
*Shure DFR22
*Peavey Feedback Ferret
*Sabine FBX

I have tried all of these brands except the Yamaha. The only algorithm I have found that doesn't usually think a rung handbell is a feedback tone is the Shure one. The Shure products are definitely more transparent the narrower they are deployed, IE groups is better than a main out, inserted on individual channels works the best.  Given how cheap DFR11s can be had there is no reason to use them in any way except inserted. Depending upon the console inserted may or may not notch both the main and the aux sends as well.

[Patrick Tracy]

Am I missing anything good?

I don't know what your definition of "good" is, but you may want to add the Behringer DSP1024.

[Michael {Bink} Knowles]

Lots of good discussion here; I have some replies and reactions:

Sure, I will look into getting other drag-and-drop or fixed architecture contractor-style DSP units such as the Symetrix and the Biamp models. I don't think the BSS Soundweb has auto feedback filters but I would not mind someone proving me wrong.

The main application I'm thinking about is speech. Music is of course a more difficult application because various musical sounds can be mistaken for feedback. But then a speech microphone is also a singing microphone in most HOW settings, so the AFS-type device should be at least somewhat resistant to the fairly pure tones that come from whistling or flute. And it should be capable of filter lockdown during shows.

I don't need to borrow a Peavey Feedback Ferret because I have a digital implementation of one in my Mediamatrix X-Frame 88. Thanks, though!

Regarding the idea that a delayed version of the initial signal can be fed back into the original signal to reduce feedback, the problem with that is it would probably sound annoying to everyone in the audience, with various delayed versions coming out of the loudspeakers at a lower level.

Thanks for the suggestion that the DR260 gives a more satisfying experience of dbx AFS than the AFS224 unit (which has no computer connection at all.)

Thanks for the suggestion of comparing a DFR11 with a DFR22.

Regarding the width of notch filters, I have seen some ridiculously skinny ones such as 1/70th of an octave. A lot more common is 1/10th of an octave, which is a bit bigger than one piano note. Over the years I have settled on a personal preference for 1/5th octave wide notches because these are more robust in the presence of changing air temperature.

Considering the Behringer product range, I don't particularly care which feedback "destroyer" appears at the shootout. I don't think Behringer will impress anybody in any form. So you can see my prejudice. 

Inserts: If a feedback fighter is inserted on a channel then I would want a clean version of that channel to send to recording and streaming mixes. Personally, I would something like this on a group mix.

-Bink

[John Roberts {JR}]

Regarding the idea that a delayed version of the initial signal can be fed back into the original signal to reduce feedback, the problem with that is it would probably sound annoying to everyone in the audience, with various delayed versions coming out of the loudspeakers at a lower level.

I really apologize for feeding this veer.. BUT, if the delayed image is set up correctly it will just subtract out the delayed audio leaking into the microphone from the speaker. There should be no change at all to the original signal or system response. In theory this could be a lot cleaner than allowing the speaker sound to leak into the microphones and just notch out the louder peaks with severe narrow EQ.

This may seem counter intuitive since we generally don't perceive feedback as an echo or repeats, but if you notch out a system well and turn up the gain to the hairy edge you can hear the hollow ringy sound of resonance from the repeats. Generally the path delay is too short to be perceived as discrete echos.

Regarding the width of notch filters, I have seen some ridiculously skinny ones such as 1/70th of an octave. A lot more common is 1/10th of an octave, which is a bit bigger than one piano note. Over the years I have settled on a personal preference for 1/5th octave wide notches because these are more robust in the presence of changing air temperature.

+1 great minds think alike. 

JR

-Bink

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