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Author Topic: Continuing thread - Distro box.  (Read 15654 times)

Andrew Broughton

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2014, 02:37:34 pm »

Your Main breaker is the source you plug into, there is no need for one in the panel itself. It's basically just a sub panel with power distros.
You're right. My bad. Carry on.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2014, 02:44:31 pm »

Just checked the board…..we brought it home with us when we were rained out yesterday. Opened up the junction box and the lives are separate (of course), the grounds are all connected and ……….the neutrals are also connected…oops???
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2014, 02:56:16 pm »

Just checked the board…..we brought it home with us when we were rained out yesterday. Opened up the junction box and the lives are separate (of course), the grounds are all connected and ……….the neutrals are also connected…oops???

That's why it was tripping the homeowner's GFCI outlets.

If you keep the neutrals separate, i.e. each Edison 5-15 feeds only one set of outlets (say the left and right sides as show in the pic), and the grounds are bonded to each other in the junction box, you'd have a functional "Poor Man's Distro".  Safe if both circuits are from the same home (in your situation), but I'd not use them between 2 different homes or electrical services.

As for why combining the neutrals is unsafe, there have been posts here about it already and I'm pretty sure Mike S will find the links faster than I can (hint).
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2014, 02:57:54 pm »

Everyone, please include pictures (if possible) of what you're talking about to newbies. They are not going to know what a rack-pack is unless you show them one.  Here's a drawing of one that can be used on 240-volt split-phase power to "break-out" separate 120-volt outlets with circuit breakers. The second picture is a Whirlwind 3-phase PowerPack front panel. You'll find all the main outlets on the back of the unit. The duplex outlet on the front is a courtesy outlet so you can plug in your iPhone charger, etc...

I presume most of the folks using this forum are sufficiently capable of using Google or Bing or Ask or any other search engine...  As "Rack Pack" is a mark of Motion Labs, a search for those words should take the user directly to Motion's site.

The courtesy outlet is where you plug in the auto defib device, when the father of the bride gets the catering bill... ;)
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mike Sokol

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2014, 03:22:13 pm »

However, after learning what I have on this forum since I joined, I'd like to own one that is to code myself so we never have to use this or any other 'suspect' boxes ever again. If he chooses to go ahead and use it for other purposes - that's his choice I suppose.
The problem is that he's opening up himself and the city (if he's an employee) for a big fat lawsuit if anyone gets seriously shocked or electrocuted (killed). Even if it's only powering a clock radio, you still have to follow proper over-current and grounding code.

See below for a recent incident where a child was killed while playing in the rain near a street junction box that wasn't properly grounded/bonded. If you read down near the bottom, they're referring to the electrician who made a statement right after this incident that - he knew there was no ground wire as they had not installed the ground, and that "if they had installed the ground wire, every time there was a power surge, it would trip the breaker and all he would get done would be resetting the breaker."

===========================================

See more at: http://www.salina.com/news/lawsuit2014-02-20T01-02-27#sthash.oykmYgzA.dpuf". 

City issues statement in connection with lawsuit in the electrical shock death of Salina girl

Posted 7 months ago

The City of Salina Thursday afternoon has released a statement concerning a lawsuit filed against the city in the death of 11-year-old Jayden Hicks who died December 31st from injuries she suffered from an electrical shock while playing in the rain last May 29th in Campbell Plaza in downtown Salina. She was shocked when she came in contact with an in-ground junction box.

The attached news release is being provided in coordination with the answer filed Thursday March 6th by James Nordstrom, legal counsel for the City of Salina, in response to the Petition filed on February 19, 2014 by Michael Rader on behalf of the Hicks family.

A February 20, 2014 article in the Salina Journal contained excerpts from a lawsuit filed on behalf of the Jayden Hicks family. The excerpts appear to be quoting statements attributed to the City Electrician that could be interpreted out of context to suggest that he was aware prior to the incident that the sealed, subsurface electrical junction box was not grounded. At the time of the incident, the City Electrician had been a City employee for less than five years and had not been assigned to the downtown electrical/lighting system prior to the incident. The sealed, subsurface electrical junction box was installed in 1987 by an independent contractor as part of the downtown renovation project completed at that time.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2014, 03:54:16 pm »

The problem is that he's opening up himself and the city (if he's an employee) for a big fat lawsuit if anyone gets seriously shocked or electrocuted (killed). Even if it's only powering a clock radio, you still have to follow proper over-current and grounding code.

See below for a recent incident where a child was killed while playing in the rain near a street junction box that wasn't properly grounded/bonded. If you read down near the bottom, they're referring to the electrician who made a statement right after this incident that - he knew there was no ground wire as they had not installed the ground, and that "if they had installed the ground wire, every time there was a power surge, it would trip the breaker and all he would get done would be resetting the breaker."

===========================================

See more at: http://www.salina.com/news/lawsuit2014-02-20T01-02-27#sthash.oykmYgzA.dpuf". 

City issues statement in connection with lawsuit in the electrical shock death of Salina girl

Posted 7 months ago

The City of Salina Thursday afternoon has released a statement concerning a lawsuit filed against the city in the death of 11-year-old Jayden Hicks who died December 31st from injuries she suffered from an electrical shock while playing in the rain last May 29th in Campbell Plaza in downtown Salina. She was shocked when she came in contact with an in-ground junction box.

The attached news release is being provided in coordination with the answer filed Thursday March 6th by James Nordstrom, legal counsel for the City of Salina, in response to the Petition filed on February 19, 2014 by Michael Rader on behalf of the Hicks family.

A February 20, 2014 article in the Salina Journal contained excerpts from a lawsuit filed on behalf of the Jayden Hicks family. The excerpts appear to be quoting statements attributed to the City Electrician that could be interpreted out of context to suggest that he was aware prior to the incident that the sealed, subsurface electrical junction box was not grounded. At the time of the incident, the City Electrician had been a City employee for less than five years and had not been assigned to the downtown electrical/lighting system prior to the incident. The sealed, subsurface electrical junction box was installed in 1987 by an independent contractor as part of the downtown renovation project completed at that time.


Terribly sad story….and an awful admission by the city employee…..

You are right of course Mike. I have read many of your posts here and respect you very much. You are not only extremely knowledgeable about this subject but you are always very mindful of safety.

He no longer works as an electrician but consults for a large company in a connected capacity.- can't remember who.

I suppose this comes down to the subject of anyone wiring, repairing, adapting or attempting to upgrade anything to do with electronics in any way but either not knowing enough about the subject,   too lazy to  find out or simply can't be asked to care enough about the consequences. Some people know just enough to be dangerous ...

I bow to those who know more than me about particular subjects - especially those who went to school and are qualified in their field and when it comes to safety, there should be no guessing going on.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2014, 03:56:47 pm »

Personally I think a power Distro needs some over current protection (aka breakers). a 50AMP single phase distro box is relatively easy to make.  You just use a weather proof breaker panel (6-8 circuits is plenty). and wire it up. I just mount the outlets right on the outside of the panel itself. You can see one of my older ones here.

Hey Jason….how did you mount everything together???
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2014, 04:11:30 pm »

The other thing is the j-boxes have knockouts that are intended to be easily knocked out-but they can juast as easily be knocked out.

He could have done this much more safely by using outdoor boxes that have threaded hubs (fancy name for holes).  I would use a proper SO strain relief going into a box with the gfci, then an offset nipple like he did to a 2 gang outdoor box.  Do that twice (internally grounding/bonding all boxes) keeping all wiring from the 2 feeds totally separate-use 4 boxes total instead of 5.  Keep it simple.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2014, 10:38:45 pm »

Not sure if having no main breaker is legal, depending on the length of the feeder...

Your Main breaker is the source you plug into, there is no need for one in the panel itself. It's basically just a sub panel with power distros.

As I recall -- and the code may have changed -- a "service entrance" (which is what we would call the "main" panel serving the facility) can have up to 6 "handles" to disconnect all power to the premises. So if your service entrance panel has no more than 6 branch circuit breakers, you don't need a main breaker. Add another and you'll probably have to replace the panel.
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2014, 06:09:41 am »

Anything that doesn't look commercially made is an instant fail down here.

If it looks like you made it yourself, the day is over and everyone is going home early.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Continuing thread - Distro box.
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2014, 06:09:41 am »


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