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[Justice C. Bigler]

The budget is $350,000,000 plus. 350' of extra 600A service costs $350,000; 1/10 th of a percent of the total cost. Is that the scale of the issue involved in meeting the spec that folks have approved?  Mark C.

This is for one venue, in a multi venue park, with multiple buildings, and several other outdoors areas, all with production capability, along the better part of a mile of river front. So, $1,000 per foot adds up when you are 500 to 1,000 feet (or more) away from your substation, and you have to make multiple runs to different parts of the park.

[Chris Hindle]

This is for one venue, in a multi venue park, with multiple buildings, and several other outdoors areas, all with production capability, along the better part of a mile of river front. So, $1,000 per foot adds up when you are 500 to 1,000 feet (or more) away from your substation, and you have to make multiple runs to different parts of the park.

... but it still comes down to trench it in today, or in 2-3 years, after putting up with overloaded panels, and renting an occasional Jenny to "fill the gap".
Anyone got any idea what kind of suck T-S-O puts on the power lines ? That's some kind of "light show". Of ya, I hear they play music also.....
I don't think I'd be a happy camper if I rolled in and was told "Here's a 400, but please don't draw more than 2"

[Mike Sokol]

Anyone got any idea what kind of suck T-S-O puts on the power lines ? That's some kind of "light show". Of ya, I hear they play music also.....
I don't think I'd be a happy camper if I rolled in and was told "Here's a 400, but please don't draw more than 2"

Didn't Beyonce trip the incoming power on the SuperBowl last year and delay the game for an hour or more? Wonder if that was caused by "over-rated" panels? I assume that heads were rolling after that one. As noted earlier, the POCO will regularly undersize transformers feeding things like housing because they know that everyone won't flip on every circuit in their houses at the same time. But we all know that big music acts often turn on EVERYTHING at the same time for effect, and even just the static loads can be huge. I would not want to be the guy signing off on an install like is being proposed. It will come around and bite you in the end. 

[Stephen Swaffer]

Is there OCP on the POCO's end set at 600?  If not, they are willing to allow transient "overloads" of the feeder.  The main issue is heating-its not like 600 amp cables are going to melt if you draw 650-or even 800 amps on them.  Even if you need the full 800 capacity for a show-what percentage of the time will the draw actually exceed 600-and for how long?  That is what will determine the heating of the cable and the ultimate degradation of the insulation. 

Back to my previous example- the POCOs feeders have an ampacity of 1240 amps (500 MCM AL times 4-code required me to use 500 MCM Cu  x 8-really looks odd in the CT cabinet, but oh well).  I have seen the amp draw over that 1240 many times-but it is not continuously there.  With UG feeders, you don't have the fire hazard in a building and so it seems engineers tend to push things a bit to save a dime.

[Mike Sokol]

Is there OCP on the POCO's end set at 600?

I think that the new Whirlwind PowerLink distro racks have current meters as an option. http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/power-electrical-distribution/distro/plr-distros Do any of the acts you work with ever monitor current draw? Would they even try, or just wait for the OCP to trip then blame YOU for it?

[Tim McCulloch]

... but it still comes down to trench it in today, or in 2-3 years, after putting up with overloaded panels, and renting an occasional Jenny to "fill the gap".
Anyone got any idea what kind of suck T-S-O puts on the power lines ? That's some kind of "light show". Of ya, I hear they play music also.....
I don't think I'd be a happy camper if I rolled in and was told "Here's a 400, but please don't draw more than 2"

Trans Siberian Orchestra?  The answer is "everything you've got, plus another 400 amperes."

Before they moved to mostly LED lights, they needed 2000-2400 amperes just for lights, 400 for audio, 200 for automation, and 200 for lasers and pyro.  Rigging piggy-backed on automation.  More recently (2013) lighting got 1200 amperes, audio got 200 and the others were unchanged.  I was the show electrician when they played here last year...

The TSO experience is really quite lavish and audiences respond to its spectacle.  I think the overall musical worthiness is another matter and like beauty, in the ear of the beholder.

[Jeff Carter]

Didn't Beyonce trip the incoming power on the SuperBowl last year and delay the game for an hour or more? Wonder if that was caused by "over-rated" panels?

I recall reading that her half-time show was entirely generator-powered, and therefore not responsible for the trip.

[Jonathan Johnson]

And PSO is building a whole substation for this park. But they have told us that laying a 600 amp electrical bundle cost upwards of $1,000 per foot.

This is not complete information. Is that "$1,000 per foot" include everything from digging the trench to filling it back in? If so, then that quote is for the first 600A bundle. The second one in the same trench should be significantly cheaper. Granted, the trench may need to be wider to accommodate the additional service. (On the other hand, if they are doing directional boring instead of trenching, the cost may be about the same for the second service.)

There is another option. Lay empty conduit in the same trench. Then down the road if expansion is necessary, it's a relatively simple matter to pull the additional cable, no digging necessary. It will still be more expensive than doing it now, but not nearly as expensive as digging or boring later after additional utilities and finished surfaces and structures are in place.

[Cailen Waddell]

If there are multiple venues - how likely are they to be active at one time?  Likely above your level of consultation, but with this distance if distribution I would consider something similar to one of our local college campus...  2400v loops that each building/venue taps off of with their own pad transformer. Lower cost wire with higher voltage. Yeah you pay for the xformer... But a ring type system rather than what sounds like a star based system would make sense to me...


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[Chris Hindle]

Trans Siberian Orchestra?  The answer is "everything you've got, plus another 400 amperes."

Before they moved to mostly LED lights, they needed 2000-2400 amperes just for lights, 400 for audio, 200 for automation, and 200 for lasers and pyro.  Rigging piggy-backed on automation. 

Yikes! That's some serious suck.... I know whole towns that use less than that.....
I'm guessing that they use a combination of venue and genny, or would they simply go all genny ?
I really can't think of any place around here with that kind of supply.

[ProSoundWeb Community]