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Author Topic: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis  (Read 21177 times)

Josh Millward

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2014, 12:06:42 pm »

I have an article in one of my dad's old notebooks that was reprinted from Bell Laboratories Record, May 1929. The article is titled "What's a Good Loud Speaker?" by L.G. Bostwick a Bell Labs researcher...

JR, Could you be persuaded to scan that article and turn it into a PDF? I am absolutely interested in reading it.
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Josh Millward
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2014, 01:11:54 pm »

JR, Could you be persuaded to scan that article and turn it into a PDF? I am absolutely interested in reading it.
According to google there was a full 24 page paper, written by him in 1929 with no scans on the WWW. I only have the first 5 pages. I didn't even read it word for word myself. I just scanned through it to pick out a few key details.

It will be a little confusing if you are not familiar with the 1920's terminology. The microphone was called "transmitter" in one place and a "moving coil receiver" in another.

Maybe if I have nothing better to do, but IMO it is only of vague historic interest. My reason for mentioning is is that we all too often assume the ancients were really ignorant, and they actually did a lot with the tools they had. I can imagine it taking them days to make measurements we do with a single button push.

JR

PS: My dad's old engineering notebooks are full of seemingly trivial by today's standards issues like wow and flutter management in recording/playback machinery.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2014, 02:04:56 pm »

And I forgot to mention these are small format pages (only 3" wide) so my crude scanner will probably not do a great job.

My first try didn't work because this forum doesn't accept PDF uploads and the fules were too large. So here is pages 1,2,3

Arghh if you can't read them you can drive to Hickory and I'll show them to you.

JR
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Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2014, 02:09:48 pm »

Here's pages 4 and 5

JR
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Don't tune your drums half-ass. Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Bob Leonard

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2014, 05:22:59 pm »

JR,

That's the balls. Thank you for posting those pages.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2014, 09:47:43 pm »


You have been misinformed. Safari is the most popular browser on Mac OS.

Mac

Which in no way makes it good, but Mac is correct.  That said safari 5.x accounts for .75% of web traffic so....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Josh Millward

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2014, 11:50:18 am »

And I forgot to mention these are small format pages (only 3" wide) so my crude scanner will probably not do a great job.

My first try didn't work because this forum doesn't accept PDF uploads and the fules were too large. So here is pages 1,2,3

Arghh if you can't read them you can drive to Hickory and I'll show them to you.

JR
Thanks JR!

It is a bit tough to read, but I find these older texts interesting. It is always curious to me to see what the folks who came before us did to solve the same problems that we are faced with today.

Seriously, thank you for taking the time to scan and upload! (twice even!)
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Josh Millward
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Mark Monson

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2014, 01:20:39 pm »

Hi Tom,

I understand all of that, but have a look at Marks post (25). He has assumed your TH118 is rated @ 108 1w/m - its not, its 105 w/m - ref 2 volts @ 4 ohm. The other boxes he is comparing them with are also 4 ohms ref. 2.0 volts. That happened even after David pointed how your boxes are measured.

... and that's an example of my point, and exactly why I think what you are doing with your specifications is misleading.

Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that these are not excellent products, in fact I would love some TH118s  :) and it does not change how they perform ... I believe you should specify your box efficiencies with respect to their nominal impedance like everyone else- i.e. 8 ohms ref. 2.83Volts -  4 ohms ref. 2.0 volts.


I understand that the Danleys are not rated at db/1w/1m, but I wanted to put something at the head of the column to show I was looking to compare sensitivity.  I think I got an answer to my question.  The Danleys should be considered around 105 rather than 108 when compared to the other speakers.

This discussion has been enlightening to me in that specifications can be manipulated easily if there is a desire to do so.  I remember in the 70's there was controversy on power ratings on amplifiers until there was some agreement (I don't know if it was mandated) on using the RMS system.  It would be great if this discussion could lead to an agreement among speaker manufacturers to use a set of standardized specifications.  It seems we have the brightest minds in the industry participating in this forum including many manufacturers.  Perhaps NAMM (or some other pro sound organization) could come up with a certifying logo that would let the less informed buyer, such as myself, know that the specifications listed were carried out in a manner that they can be compared fairly to other speakers.

Reading the posts to this thread indicates that there is enough passion to accomplish this.

 
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Josh Millward

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2014, 01:28:19 pm »

It would be great if this discussion could lead to an agreement among speaker manufacturers to use a set of standardized specifications.  It seems we have the brightest minds in the industry participating in this forum including many manufacturers.  Perhaps NAMM (or some other pro sound organization) could come up with a certifying logo that would let the less informed buyer, such as myself, know that the specifications listed were carried out in a manner that they can be compared fairly to other speakers.

Reading the posts to this thread indicates that there is enough passion to accomplish this.

It has already been done.

Common Loudspeaker Format: a.k.a. CLF
All the information you ever wanted to know about a loudspeaker in one easy to understand and comprehensive format.
You can learn more about it at their website: http://clfgroup.org/

However, you need to make it a requirement from your loudspeaker manufacturer.

Also newly available is Common Amplifier Format: a.k.a. CAF
Learn more about this at their website: http://cafgroup.org/
Demand that your amplifier manufacturers provide CAF documentation with their amplifiers.
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Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs

Ray Aberle

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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2014, 01:52:18 pm »

But the problem appears to be with the older version of Safari and not the newer ones.

*sighs* the age old fight against web developers who insist on having the latest and greatest widgets and gizmos on their websites thus obsoleting perfectly good computers. Woo hoo! I just miss the good ole' days where the majority of web developers preferred clean, compatible and super fast websites, and gave the option for cutting edge if people wanted it, but it wasn't forced on everyone.

But I know, I am absolutely in the minority as I regard the internets as a tool to assist me with me life, as opposed to having a life intertwined with and entirely dependent on the internet.

-Ray "Day Late and a Dollar Short to the discussion" Aberle
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Re: Which subs to buy? Paralysis by analysis
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2014, 01:52:18 pm »


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