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Author Topic: Why we need to pay attention to bonding  (Read 7980 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« on: October 03, 2014, 04:55:40 pm »

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/03/boy-shocked-at-football-game-has-died-school-district-announces/

No amount of investigating or money will undo this-and it is possible that there was no code violation involved.
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Steve Swaffer

Mike Sokol

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2014, 04:59:30 pm »

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/03/boy-shocked-at-football-game-has-died-school-district-announces/

No amount of investigating or money will undo this-and it is possible that there was no code violation involved.

So sad... Yup, without proper ground-bonding of all metallic structures that can come in contact with any extension cord or gear, a nicked wire can electrify nearly anything.

Just a side note.... a NCVT (Non Contact Voltage Tester) would have found this in advance.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2014, 05:10:27 pm »

An perhaps a GFCI would have prevented it too.

JR
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 05:22:06 pm »


Just a side note.... a NCVT (Non Contact Voltage Tester) would have found this in advance.

Education would have helped as well.



Justin Herrero, 14, said the handicap ramp and fencing that leads into the bleachers on the west side of the Lincoln football field has been giving him and his friends something like a shock for weeks.

Herrero, a freshman, said when he held onto the safety railing on the handicap ramp with one hand and gripped a pole fencing was attached to with the other, he could feel a charge that caused the skin on his arms to tighten.

"You could see my bones popping out," he said.

Numerous students knew that the railing could shock, Herrero said, but to his knowledge, no one told school administration.

"I didn't think it was important."

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/10/update_lincoln_student_said_do.html
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 10:04:21 pm »

Education would have helped as well.

I would agree that education IS the most important thing that can be done to prevent electrical accidents. In nearly every case of electrocution I've read about over the last few years, others had been experiencing shocks or tingles anywhere from days to weeks before the victim was killed. But nobody seems to think it's important or is some kind of joke. The most important idea we can impart to everyone, no matter if they're on a stage or in their home, is that ANY shock, no matter how small it appears to be, can become deadly in a heartbeat.   
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2014, 11:49:56 am »

Education would have helped as well.



Justin Herrero, 14, said the handicap ramp and fencing that leads into the bleachers on the west side of the Lincoln football field has been giving him and his friends something like a shock for weeks.

Herrero, a freshman, said when he held onto the safety railing on the handicap ramp with one hand and gripped a pole fencing was attached to with the other, he could feel a charge that caused the skin on his arms to tighten.

"You could see my bones popping out," he said.

Numerous students knew that the railing could shock, Herrero said, but to his knowledge, no one told school administration.

"I didn't think it was important."

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/10/update_lincoln_student_said_do.html
"I didn't think it was important" is another way if saying "I can't be bothered to take the time..."
Hopefully, the people that knew of the problem feel some kind of guilt when someone gets seriously injured.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 11:52:20 am by Keith Broughton »
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2014, 01:13:40 pm »

The correct response to a shock at a school should be That doesn't seem right, I could be hurt, others could be hurt. I should report it.
Two problems with this.  Kids don't think anything will hurt them.  A student reporting a problem at school is putting him self in harms way.  He has to tell someone in authority that one of the authority figures may have allowed something to go wrong.  As I remember Government (public) school, that doesn't go well.

Why did you touch it? Were you out of line? Were you doing what you were told when you touched it.  I don't think so. sit down and be quiet.  Students learn to keep there head down and don't get noticed.

I think there is a feeling that it can't be dangerous or I wouldn't be allowed to be here.  People assume that companies, products, governments, and things are not allowed to hurt them.  There is a very large park near me that has a deep gorge with near vertical sides.  There are numerous signs warning people to stay back but every year people fall in.  Many of them have said after rescue that they thought it must be safe or there would have been fences.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2014, 05:25:20 pm »


I think there is a feeling that it can't be dangerous or I wouldn't be allowed to be here.  People assume that companies, products, governments, and things are not allowed to hurt them.  There is a very large park near me that has a deep gorge with near vertical sides.  There are numerous signs warning people to stay back but every year people fall in.  Many of them have said after rescue that they thought it must be safe or there would have been fences.

When I worked in a factory, I was fortunate to work in a facility that placed a high priority on safety-but far too often people acted like it was 'the company"''s responsibility to keep them safe.  I pointed out to management that the maintenance department-in spite of routinely working in energized panels, working on equipment with guards removed, and a host of other "hazardous" situations almost always had the best safety record-because our job made us THINK about what we were doing.

People used to use equipment that would be considered hazardous today and live to talk about it-now we expect someone else to do the safety thinking for us.  That is why I made the comment that there may have been no code violation-it sounds like that was a permanent installation, but had that been "my" gig and a temporary install, would I have thought to perhaps bond  to that fence even though nothing says I have to?

I know we can get carried away with endless what-ifs, but I think it wise to take few minutes and look around a setup and look for the oddball hazard.  Regardless of the financial consequences, I don't want to see the faces of a 13 yr olds family when I lay my head on my pillow at night.
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Steve Swaffer

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2014, 01:52:47 am »

That is why I made the comment that there may have been no code violation-it sounds like that was a permanent installation, but had that been "my" gig and a temporary install, would I have thought to perhaps bond  to that fence even though nothing says I have to?

I think the only place that I've ever seen a fence bonded & grounded is around an electrical substation.

There is an almost complete lack of education among trades & contractors about electrical safety when it comes to permanent installs. The fencing contractor isn't going to bond to a bleacher structure, because the bleachers aren't their project and they aren't electricians. The bleacher contractor isn't going to bond to the the fence because the fence isn't THEIR project, and neither are they electricians. The electricians aren't going to bond the two, because neither is an electrical installation.

Electrical safety of the permanent install needs to be on the forefront of designers' and contractors' minds. Of course they take safety training for using their extension cords and power tools in a safe manner, but that's only for the temporary power. It boils down to this: if it's made of metal, it could become electrified; how do we ensure that it doesn't also become a shock hazard? If it becomes electrified, how do we prevent a person completing the circuit?
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 02:06:18 am »

An perhaps a GFCI would have prevented it too.

JR

+1

Everything we build will fail, given enough time.  The safest electrical installation will become unsafe just through the passage of time.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Why we need to pay attention to bonding
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 02:06:18 am »


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