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Author Topic: What do you want in a genny?  (Read 7795 times)

Frank DeWitt

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Re: What do you want in a genny?
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2014, 01:00:05 pm »

Mods and liability.
Do we KNOW that modifying a generator increases or decreases the liability?  if so, what mods? 
Can you clean it?
Can you bolt it to a trailer?
Can you refuel it?
Can you ground it?
Can you connect the ground to the neutral?
Can you paint it?


I know that I have often observed insurance and liability used as a stick  (Customers are not allowed in the shop for insurance liability reasons.) but I have never talked to a insurance company or lawyer who could really tell me. 

For that matter, has anyone ever got a straight answer from a insurance company?

I write this as a guy who has restored and modified cars. OK I have modified every car I have ever owned.  Also a guy who designed and built the house I live in, and has helped other volunteers do a lot of building, rebuilding, and modification at church.

My mower is extensively modified (Tires, hitch, oil cooler, and more)  I think my 53 Farmall is stock, no, I added fenders and changed the lights, and I modified my hammer.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: What do you want in a genny?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2014, 02:51:16 pm »

Mods and liability.

OK, so I buy an extension cord made by Woods. The ground pin breaks off, so I dutifully replace the male plug with a replacement plug made by Cooper Electric and listed for the purpose. I follow all the instructions included with the replacement plug precisely.

Somewhere down the road, there is a failure of the extension cord, and it's determined that the failure has something to do with the termination at the male end of the cord. Who is liable? Cooper may disclaim liability asserting that the failure was with the cord, not the plug. Woods may disclaim liability because the cordset was modified without their express permission.

If it's me, should I never be allowed to repair cords? Am I required to dispose of them? Or must I have a licensed electrician or UL repair shop perform the repair, at a cost greater than simply replacing the cord?

There's gotta be some "common sense" ground here.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: What do you want in a genny?
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2014, 03:08:07 pm »

 Mike Sokol has developed a excellent talk on grounding and the dangers of reverse polarity bootleg ground.  He has developed some well researched and well made show and tell demo equipment for his teaching.   I would like to invite him to bring his equipment and his talk to the church I attend and teach us.  I would also like to invite the local fire marshal to attend.  Will our church lose it's insurance?  Will we be able to get new insurance ever again.

At some point the don't mod it because it will cause a liability / insurance problem is real.  At some other point it is something to consider and something we don't know the answer to.  At another point it is a meaningless weapon to wave around and paralyze people.

I personally have seen a insurance company refuse to even quote a price for liability on a new product only because it was new so they had no history to gauge risk.
I have also seen them pay a clam on a car damaged on a race track while the owner was taking a high speed driving coarse.  They said the (Modified) car was licensed and insured and being used in a manor that was legal so it was covered.   In other words I can't tell.
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Craig Hauber

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Re: What do you want in a genny?
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2014, 11:17:55 pm »

From my IA Grounding/Bonding Workshop:


Guy Holt, Gaffer
ScreenLight & Grip
www.screenlightandgrip.com

Are you tying the neutrals together in that diagram or just the ground wires? (small screen and eyes not too good anymore)
I guess that's a moot issue if G-N is connected in the generators
On that note, Do you G-N connect at all generators or only at one?  how about ground rods -at each one or centrally?
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Craig Hauber
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: What do you want in a genny?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2014, 11:49:22 am »

Each genny needs to be G-N bonded to provide a path for fault current generated by that genny to return to the neutral of that genny so that OCPD (breakers) will trip when a fault occurs.

Then their needs to be a grounding electrode system (ground rods) for the installation, then anything that can possibly become energized-stages, lighting truss, gear racks all needs to be bonded to that same system.  Bonding simply being defined as "an intentional electrical connection".  Bonding conductors should be sized according to the main breakers in the largest genny used.  If, for example" an extension cord plugged into any genny gets nicked and shorts to any metal part of your install, the electricity needs a good metallic path back to the neutral so that a breaker trips.  Also, the human body has a higher resistance than a good metallic bond-so the current will not flow though a person causing harm.

In permanent systems, each structure and service would have its own grounding electrode or set of ground rods-I am not sure in a temporary install if that would really be necessary-but others might disagree?  IMO bonding would be more important. 

 
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Steve Swaffer

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What do you want in a genny?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2014, 11:49:22 am »


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