ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Church install advice  (Read 3333 times)

Daniel Liu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Church install advice
« on: September 08, 2014, 08:33:35 pm »

I'm trying to decide between two options for a sound upgrade and am needing some help from people who may have heard the these in action. All other things being equal, what would you choose for house speakers, EV-EVH1152s with a JBL ASB6128 sub....or Nexo PS10-R2s with a RS18 sub? Thanks ahead of time.
Logged

Thomas Lamb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 531
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 08:35:19 pm »

I'm trying to decide between two options for a sound upgrade and am needing some help from people who may have heard the these in action. All other things being equal, what would you choose for house speakers, EV-EVH1152s with a JBL ASB6128 sub....or Nexo PS10-R2s with a RS18 sub? Thanks ahead of time.

Apples, oranges, bananas. Is liuey your real full name?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 08:37:52 pm by Thomas Lamb »
Logged
bigTlamb

"If you suck on a functional analog desk, you'll really suck on a complex digital desk...." Dick Rees

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6880
  • Audio Plumber
Posting Rules
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 08:42:25 pm »

I'm trying to decide between two options

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
Logged

Robert Healey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 241
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 10:17:57 am »

I'm trying to decide between two options for a sound upgrade and am needing some help from people who may have heard the these in action. All other things being equal, what would you choose for house speakers, EV-EVH1152s with a JBL ASB6128 sub....or Nexo PS10-R2s with a RS18 sub? Thanks ahead of time.

If those are your two choices, you can't consider them equal. The EVH-1152 is a large, 150lb horn loaded speaker with many choices for the pattern. In addition, it holds its pattern down to 500Hz, making it a good choice for many installation situations where portability isn't an issue. If you have a poor acoustic environment, it is a good choice due to the superior pattern control - you will have less sound hitting the walls.

The Nexo PS10 sounds very good, but doesn't have a very large horn and therefore isn't very directional in the lower frequencies. It comes in one pattern with an asymmetric horn. Will that fit your room? We can't tell on the internet. If it does fit and your room has a low reverberation time and sound absorption on the walls, it may work, too.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 03:24:19 pm by Robert Healey »
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9061
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 03:09:47 pm »

I'm trying to decide between two options for a sound upgrade and am needing some help from people who may have heard the these in action. All other things being equal, what would you choose for house speakers, EV-EVH1152s with a JBL ASB6128 sub....or Nexo PS10-R2s with a RS18 sub? Thanks ahead of time.
Why just 2 choices? 

It really depends on what the job needs in terms of coverage area-SPL-freq response etc.

Without knowing those things-there is no way to say what would be best from the limited choices.

Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Daniel Liu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 04:26:46 pm »

Why just 2 choices? 

It really depends on what the job needs in terms of coverage area-SPL-freq response etc.

Without knowing those things-there is no way to say what would be best from the limited choices.

Those are 2 separate proposals from 2 different companies. Its a traditional church space that sits around 400 people. The speakers need to be able to handle rock music with a full band. Does that help?
Logged

Daniel Liu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 04:28:31 pm »

If those are your two choices, you can't consider them equal. The EVH-1152 is a large, 150lb horn loaded speaker with many choices for the pattern. In addition, it holds its pattern down to 500Hz, making it a good choice for many installation situations where portability isn't an issue. If you have a poor acoustic environment, it is a good choice due to the superior pattern control - you will have less sound hitting the walls.

The Nexo PS10 sounds very good, but doesn't have a very large horn and therefore isn't very directional in the lower frequencies. It comes in one pattern with an asymmetric horn. Will that fit your room? We can't tell on the internet. If it does fit and your room has a low reverberation time and sound absorption on the walls, it may work, too.

Its in a church building that holds about 400 people. Right now the room acoustics are terrible, but they are being addressed as a part of these proposals as well.
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9061
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 08:13:09 pm »

Those are 2 separate proposals from 2 different companies. Its a traditional church space that sits around 400 people. The speakers need to be able to handle rock music with a full band. Does that help?
What is the layout-dimension wise?  Is it wide or deep or square?

How loud is a "rock band"?  I say this because to some people-when they bring out the acoustic guitar it is considered "rock".  To others if the kick drum is not pounding you in the chest it is not loud enough.

Are we talking 85dB or 105dB  HUGE difference.  And yes-both levels are considered "contemporary" Church levels.  And is that A or C weighted-fast or slow.

If you choose the extremes- you are talking about difference of 50dB which is only a factor of 100,000.  Just a little bit of a difference in the wallet there.

DETAILS are important-or else you will just get uninformed opinions that could mean little to the actual customer.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9061
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 08:15:01 pm »

I'm trying to decide between two options for a sound upgrade and am needing some help from people who may have heard the these in action. All other things being equal, what would you choose for house speakers, EV-EVH1152s with a JBL ASB6128 sub....or Nexo PS10-R2s with a RS18 sub? Thanks ahead of time.
BTW it is not considered "good form" to post in different parts of the forum.  What you end up with is different discussion about the same thing-so the confusion just gets worse
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Daniel Liu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 05:37:51 am »

What is the layout-dimension wise?  Is it wide or deep or square?

How loud is a "rock band"?  I say this because to some people-when they bring out the acoustic guitar it is considered "rock".  To others if the kick drum is not pounding you in the chest it is not loud enough.

Are we talking 85dB or 105dB  HUGE difference.  And yes-both levels are considered "contemporary" Church levels.  And is that A or C weighted-fast or slow.

If you choose the extremes- you are talking about difference of 50dB which is only a factor of 100,000.  Just a little bit of a difference in the wallet there.

DETAILS are important-or else you will just get uninformed opinions that could mean little to the actual customer.

Sorry for the confusion. its my first time posting on this forum and wasn't sure where to post.

The room is 95 feet across and 43 feet from the front of the stage to the back wall. We are currently running our services at around 93dB, A weighted, but thats with 25 yr old equipment and a very reverberant room. We dont necessarily need something that is going to shake the foundations, but i'd like something that can handle the full spectrum of sound we would be putting through it. Currently we have drums, keys, bass, 2 acoustics, and an electric guitar. We also are going to be playing with tracks, so its going to be quite a lot of sound coming out.

I want to know which, if any, of these proposals will be best suited for our space. I realize the speakers are just a small part of it, but I would say everything else is about equal otherwise.
Logged

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 06:20:30 am »

What is the ceiling hight of this room, we have a similar room but the ceiling is just over 3m so it is nearly impossible to get proper sound in there while keeping sight lines on stage in mind. This is also a very wide room that isn't very deep. I haven't looked much at the speakers mentioned but I know that you will be much better of getting a contractor in to recommend an install then to demo that install and see if you are happy with it than for you to get random advice of a sound forum when nobody on that forum has even seen the room.

Could you also list at least a rough location of where you are, maybe somebody is close to you.

What is wrong with the system you currently have deployed that it needs to be replaced, if there are damaged elements but it serves it's purpose well enough then I would rather recommend doing some maintenance to get it back to where it should be and then leaving the system as is.

You also mentioned sound treatment, this alone could make the system overall sound better and I would recommend you do that first before you consider an upgrade/replacement, especially if the room acoustics are as bad as what you make them out to be.
Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 06:50:33 am »

Quote
We wont be running the system at rock concert levels right off the bat(if ever), though for certain events, that might be good to have. We've got acoustic drums, that we are planning on partially enclosing and mic'ing. Currently the electric guitar is going direct through a POD, and acoustic guitars are going direct as well. The bass is the only amp currently on stage but mostly because our current system cant handle that spectrum of sound.

Are you saying that the Nexo system just doesnt have the power to handle a full band? Our room is fairly wide(wider than it is deep)95' long and 43' to the back wall from the front of the stage. The proposal is for 4 PS10s across the front of the stage.

I would like to comment on this in that 4 across the front of the stage will give you some phasing which will definitely cause issues with uniformity, how tall is the roof? It could be possible to just use 2 hangs of the right speakers as well depending on the room. Are there isle where it would be best to have nulls which you will then be able to have a more zoned approach, there doesn't need to be decent coverage in isle since I'm pretty sure that your local law much like ours makes it illegal to have the isle blocked by people/things.
Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9061
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 07:51:03 am »

We are currently running our services at around 93dB, A weighted, but thats with 25 yr old equipment and a very reverberant room. We dont necessarily need something that is going to shake the foundations, but i'd like something that can handle the full spectrum of sound we would be putting through it. Currently we have drums, keys, bass, 2 acoustics, and an electric guitar. We also are going to be playing with tracks, so its going to be quite a lot of sound coming out.


So what is the question?  Are you happy with the levels you are getting now-but just not getting enough low freq response?

If so, then just add some subs.

Is it the sound quality of the current system?

What IS the current system.  How do you know that either of the proposals will be a step up?  We don't where you are starting from--------------

In another post you said you don't need "concert level but it would be nice to have".

How much money do you have for this?  You do realize that "concert level" is a good 10dB or more higher than your current level.

That comes at a PRICE $$$$  Are you willing to spend it?

That makes a HUGE difference in the way somebody proceeds with recommendations.

Somebody could propose a system that WILL give you concert level, but will lose out because of the price.  They cold provide you with a less expensive system that will get the job done-and compare price wise with the other proposals.

You HAVE to compare apples to apples.

Maybe you need a full 1 ton pickup once or twice a year.  So is that what you buy (and pay for), when what you really need is a mini pickup for most of your usages?

Less up front costs etc.  And you can always rent when needed.

FIRST you have to ACCURATELY define the goals of the system and the REAL NEEDS, THEN you start to look at what will satisfy them.

If you don't accurately define the "design goals", then how will you know if they are being meet?
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Robert Healey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 241
Re: Church install advice
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 10:50:29 am »

Sorry for the confusion. its my first time posting on this forum and wasn't sure where to post.

The room is 95 feet across and 43 feet from the front of the stage to the back wall. We are currently running our services at around 93dB, A weighted, but thats with 25 yr old equipment and a very reverberant room. We dont necessarily need something that is going to shake the foundations, but i'd like something that can handle the full spectrum of sound we would be putting through it. Currently we have drums, keys, bass, 2 acoustics, and an electric guitar. We also are going to be playing with tracks, so its going to be quite a lot of sound coming out.

I want to know which, if any, of these proposals will be best suited for our space. I realize the speakers are just a small part of it, but I would say everything else is about equal otherwise.

I think you're getting vague answers because there are so many other factors than just the model numbers of the speakers. Sound systems are just that - systems. The entire system design has an important role in the functionality. Furthermore, without fairly detailed architectural plans and sections we aren't qualified to comment on the bids. Both speakers you have listed are professional tools - but not every tool is right for every job. Depending on your circumstances, either would work well. Without being involved in the whole process, we can't give you a straight answer because we have an incomplete idea of your particular circumstances.

There are consultants who would be happy to do a peer reviews of your multiple bids (for a fee) - in fact, many of the people commenting on this thread provide those services. It is more involved process than just looking at the model numbers  - it would be a through review of the contractor's documentation, the modeling used by contractors to lay out the system, and perhaps building their own EASE models if the bidder's are incomplete or suspect. There would be a final recommendation to pick one bid over the other and possibly suggestions for the contractor to incorporate into the design.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Church install advice
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 10:50:29 am »


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.038 seconds with 22 queries.