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Poll

Should you pre-twist the wire for wire-nuts?

Yes
- 4 (23.5%)
No
- 6 (35.3%)
Doesn't Matter
- 4 (23.5%)
Wire Nuts Are Evil
- 3 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted: 17


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Author Topic: No Box, Safe?  (Read 32310 times)

Steve M Smith

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2014, 01:42:30 AM »

Great thread.  I think we have about seven separate subjects being discussed... eight now!


Steve.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2014, 01:55:56 AM »

Great thread.  I think we have about seven separate subjects being discussed... eight now!


Steve.

No conversation is complete unless it involves bathroom humor. Or humour, if you prefer.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #112 on: September 18, 2014, 02:42:46 AM »

No conversation is complete unless it involves bathroom humor. Or humour, if you prefer.

That was covered awhile ago when the wire nuts came into play.

This thread is much like how my brain works.  I have enjoyed reading it.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Jeff Bankston

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #113 on: September 18, 2014, 03:38:55 AM »

next topic > how to record a song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyT_2vV1jEw
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #114 on: September 18, 2014, 09:17:34 AM »

No conversation is complete unless it involves bathroom humor. Or humour, if you prefer.

Happy now???  ;D
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Mike Sokol
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Mike Sokol

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2014, 09:27:22 AM »

I would like to be in that loop.  Please keep us current on it.

OK, next week I'm going to start a ground-loop troubleshooting thread and make it a sticky. After all, this is the AC Power & Grounding forum, so that's about as OT as it gets. Frank, and anyone who wants to be part of the inner circle, please contact me first to discuss specifics on what would be useful for the group. I have a LOT of different tests I've developed, many of which won't be useful for road-dog situations. But I have a few really simple tests in mind (for instance - clamp ammeter around the entire XLR cable) that should be really handy for hum troubleshooting during a live gig or fixing a mature install. I don't want to spend the time just yet on a guide as to how new installation power should be designed for best audio quality, simply because it would have to cover so many local codes.  That's the stuff that will go into my book.

Shoot me an email at mike@noshockzone.org with the subject line Ground Loop and let's do a little brainstorming.
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Mike Sokol
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Lyle Williams

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #116 on: September 26, 2014, 04:50:23 AM »

Sorry, very late to the party.

The original photo is completely normal in Australia.  I think we have less electrocutions per capita than the US.

While there are wires shown taped together, these are not yet energised.  The photo was taken while the wiring was being roughed in.  All the wires end up screwed down deep inside power outlets and switches.  If wires are joined outside an outlet or switch, it is done in a junction box.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #117 on: September 26, 2014, 11:54:14 AM »

The original photo is completely normal in Australia.  I think we have less electrocutions per capita than the US.

While there are wires shown taped together, these are not yet energised.  The photo was taken while the wiring was being roughed in.  All the wires end up screwed down deep inside power outlets and switches.  If wires are joined outside an outlet or switch, it is done in a junction box.

There, now we have an answer to a point I made in earlier post (that probably got lost in the shuffle):

Without seeing the devices that the Australian electricians will mount on these rings, we can't really judge that it's unsafe. If the devices include some means of strain relief, at least that concern is addressed...

Still might be nice to have a picture of the devices with the wires installed but not completely assembled, so we can see just how the connections and strain relief work. Not that it's useful for us in the United States to know how to wire an assembly we'll probably never lay hands on, but it's still nice to know.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #118 on: September 26, 2014, 12:52:19 PM »

Still might be nice to have a picture of the devices with the wires installed but not completely assembled, so we can see just how the connections and strain relief work.

You have strain relief on internal boxes?  What would be causing any strain?

This is what it looks like in the UK:




Steve.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #119 on: September 26, 2014, 01:07:48 PM »

You have strain relief on internal boxes?  What would be causing any strain?

The National Electrical Code (the code used in most jurisdictions in the United States) requires an integral strain relief for all cables entering any electrical box. The only exception is for nonmetallic, single-gang boxes which don't require an integral strain relief IF the cable is fastened to the building structure within 6" (13 cm) of the box entry.

Cables must also be fastened to the building structure at specified distances (I think it's a maximum of 4 feet, or just over a meter). The only exception to this rule is for "old work" where the wire is fished through enclosed ceiling and wall cavities, where it would be impractical to fasten the cable.

So why are we required to have strain relief? Probably because in many situations, the walls are left unfinished so the wiring remains exposed. Also, our construction practices often require wiring to be energized before the drywall is completed. As the electrical inspector won't necessarily know which walls will be finished and which will be left open for future finishing, they treat it all as though it will remain unfinished. (Where the wiring is intended to be permanently exposed, nonmetallic cable must be enclosed in conduit at any point below 8 ft/2.5m above the finished floor.) With that in mind, there is a LOT of construction that remains "unfinished" forever, but because it's "unfinished" then it's not "permanent" so isn't installed in conduit.  :o )

So the strain relief is required to keep stress off of the connections during the time between wiring and the wall is finished to conceal the wiring.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: No Box, Safe?
« Reply #119 on: September 26, 2014, 01:07:48 PM »


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