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Author Topic: Line arrays explained!  (Read 50526 times)

Per Sovik

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #100 on: September 15, 2014, 06:37:33 AM »

It's an interesting statement because something is keeping them from moving into the North America.  Their deployments are all in 2nd world countries.
If I'm not totally misinformed, you don't see a lot of d&b, Nexo and Outline in North America either. As far as installations in former Commie Block countries go, there is where most of the new business goes in Europe these days, d&b and L'acoustics have their fair share of that market. VUE seems to be breaking into old world markets as well, so I don't think there is a trend to be seen here, it's just that markets are a bit easier to get into when there has been a major change.
Given that, I have no opinion as to the quality of the VUE stuff, how it sounds in a comparable setting, what's hype and what's not.
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #101 on: September 15, 2014, 10:44:35 AM »

Ken Berger's association with VUE devalues the organization IMO.

Pedigree? There are many formerly loyal EAW customers (with $100k's EAW  purchases) who would never again consider a company he is associated with.

And I agree: A TrueExtant diaphragm on a Radian structure is not revolutionary. (IIRC EAW spec'd TAD w/850 early on)...

« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:12:42 AM by Jim McKeveny »
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James A. Griffin

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #102 on: September 15, 2014, 11:00:54 AM »

You are the first person to ever go down that road with Vue?  It's an interesting statement because something is keeping them from moving into the North America.  Their deployments are all in 2nd world countries.

What doesn't correlate are two things, 1) the pedigree of management.  Ken Berger and Jim Sides 2) The price, these things are not, by any means cheap.  They are some of the most expensive compact and sub-compact market.


You're really not trying to say that there are no VUE Audiotechnik line arrays in North America are you?
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #103 on: September 15, 2014, 12:03:35 PM »

You're really not trying to say that there are no VUE Audiotechnik line arrays in North America are you?

No, I am not saying that.  Bad choice of the word all, perhaps mostly would have been better.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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James A. Griffin

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #104 on: September 15, 2014, 12:12:59 PM »

No, I am not saying that.  Bad choice of the word all, perhaps mostly would have been better.

Marjan,
You are the first person to ever go down that road with Vue?  It's an interesting statement because something is keeping them from moving into the North America.  Their deployments are all in 2nd world countries.

The thrust of your comment seemed to be that VUE is not even trying in North America, as if they know there is something wrong with the design or construction of their boxes.    Just glancing around the web, I see there are a lot of al-4 and al-8 out there in USA.   
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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #105 on: September 15, 2014, 01:34:19 PM »

I might be wrong but didnt PRG got like 2-300 boxes from VUE?

Kenneth Berger

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #106 on: September 15, 2014, 02:00:52 PM »

Ken Berger's association with VUE devalues the organization IMO.

Pedigree? There are may formerly loyal EAW customers (with $100k's EAW  purchases) who would never again consider a company he is associated with.

And I agree: A TrueExtant diaphragm on a Radian structure is not revolutionary. (IIRC EAW spec'd TAD w/850 early on)...

I take exception with this, to put it nicely.  I am sure there are people out there who have issues with me, there have always been some.  I am also thankful for the 100’s of people in the US and through out the world who I can call as friends and associates in this industry, many of whom begged me for years to do something interesting in the pro speaker market.

I do not know what Jim is going off about and would suggest he contact me directly rather than spreading innuendos.

My experience in this industry includes building not one but a few of the greatest teams, products, brands and companies (including founding of prosoudnweb.com) speaker for itself – I am confident that my personal credibility stands on it's own merits.

The quality of VUE's products also stand on their own,we are not ashamed of the fact that we engineer our products in the US, Germany and China, this should not be an issue.  Many pro speaker companies have issues for historical reasons in acknowledging the amount of manufacturing done in Asia. Almost all the drivers in the world use some Chinese parts today, they virtually own the market for magnetic materials (we can discuss the politics of this and weather it is good long term but we can not deny this).

With regard to our drivers we are very proud of what we have accomplished in so short a time. In our larger systems we do use a radian supplied motor assembly along with a heavily modified version of the Materion Truextent 100mm diaphragm, and we are very proud of the performance we have been able to achieve with this assembly. In fact our modified diaphragm / voice coil assembly will produce an order of magnitude less power compression (10x less in the 10-70 watts range) than the standard hifi optimized Treuextent diaphragm. The current driver is more robust than the TAD 4000 series ever was, it uses a totally different type of BE process for greater strength, it can hit the phase plug (never should but it can) without shattering.  We used the Radian magnetic assembly for time to market as tooling our own would have delayed our original systems by a year. To answer another post both our Be diaphragms are 100% Be, and this does impact the cost of the systems substantially as our diaphragms domes cost more almost any comparable complete drives.

We also enveloped the first totally new Beryllium compression driver in more than a decade and that is what we use in the al-4 and al-8.  This was a totally ground up design including dome geometry, voice coil, phase plug and magnetic assembly. 

With the exception of the compression driver in our a-class systems all the drivers in our systems are designed and built exclusively for VUE. That is something very few other companies can say these days.

As an example the woofer in the al-8 is to our knowledge the only 3 inch voice coil 8 inch driver in the pro industry today.  Also as an example of our diver capabilities the al-4 woofer utilizes a kevlar cone and butyl rubber surround,  making it totally unique.

One of the lessons I learned at the companies I helped build and the many others I have consulted with over the years is the Not Invented Here Syndrome limits what a company can achieve, it limits the spread of technology. It is one of the reasons so many companies do somethings well and not others.  With VUE we worked very hard not to limit our selves and embrace partnerships to bring the best technology from many sources together to build better performing and integrated products.  That's why we sought out key development  partners form day one with companies like: Materion (Northern California) to advance HF driver capabilities, and AFMG (Berlin) to develop better modeling and beam forming software, and Pascal (Denmark) to develop light weight amps that produce real useable power and ALLDSP (Germany) for the first integrated DSP and networking and control architecture.

The performance of our (VUE Audiotechnik) systems also speak for them selves. We are happy to arrange demos for anyone in th US (please let us know we will put you on the schedule, the list of request increases every day). We have won major system designs and completed a number of installations through out the US.  We have been slower than we would have liked in bringing the al-4 and al-8 to market, we spent more time than we had hope for in development along with ramping production slowly to maintain a pace that enables very high standards in terms of quality procedures.

In less than a year we have shipped well over 1,000 line arrays systems and the number is growing faster each month. We have a range of advanced systems in development for release over the next few years. Speaking for our team we feel we have accomplished more, faster than any pro loudspeaker company in history, especially considering we are still a very small new company. I want to personally thank everyone who has helped us accomplished so much in such a short time, this is a great industry and it is made up of amazing people.

We are very busy and we are still a very small tight group working to build something great. From some of the comments here (many of which I hope I have answered) it is clear we need to get out more, something I hope to do more, and will.

Ken Berger
CEO VUE Audiotechnik
Founder of EAW, Prosoundweb.com, VUE Audiotechnik
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 04:10:46 PM by Kenneth Berger »
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Kenneth Berger

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #107 on: September 15, 2014, 02:04:49 PM »

As a manufacturer my self i should not allow my self to talk about other peoples products, but i can not hold it. Pardon me if someone will get offended by this i am going to say.

Comparing Danley products with such ones as VUE, is an insult.

Their products are nothing more then a carefully packed and very cleverly advertised Chinese boxes that use all but the HF drivers a generic Chinese components made by AD. For those not familiar AD is a Chinese loudspeaker components manufacturer.

As most of the manufacturers they all say its an OEM custom part bla bla, but we all know that is rarely the case today.

About their cabinet build quality i do not want to say anything. Check their pictures on their Facebook page and you will notice what i am talking about.

Those back handles on that AL-8 box??? Man WTF are those? Who are they kidding?

Now back to your question. What will match or beat 4 AL-8s from the Danley line?
Pick first one you see. It will do it.
Learn to read the small letters. Sure 4 cabinets 105db. But what is the max continuous SPL per box? It is 119db. So 4 boxes will give you 131db max continuos SPL.

That my friend is not a lot for 4 boxes. Not at all.

you are right about the al-8 handles they are temp until the tooling for the new ones are done:)
The al-4 are very small less than 16 lbs each making them ideal for many applications where size and weight are critical, they are not about SPL unless you start to make bigger arrays.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #108 on: September 15, 2014, 02:08:13 PM »

I don't know what you mean by "results".



Hi David
I wouldn’t want to speak for Pat and I wasn’t able to find much on line other than some announcements about what was going to be discussed.
 


Is this not the same event?
http://www.prosoundtraining.com/site/blog/line-array-intelligibility-study/
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2014, 02:45:31 PM »

Mr. Berger, are you currently in a professional affilliation with one or more businesses that (by forum rules) should be disclosed in your posts?  I infer from your phrasing that such might be the case.   Mark C.
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Re: Line arrays explained!
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2014, 02:45:31 PM »


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