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Author Topic: Neil Diamond JBL touring system  (Read 7523 times)

Alberto Escrina

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Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« on: August 29, 2014, 04:55:42 pm »

Hi everyone!
I´m working on a seminar on these days and I would like to find a picture of a huge sound system of JBL cabinets for a Neil Diamond concert of 30++ years ago.
It was a very very big suspended point source array.
I recall I saw it on a JBL advertising banner.
Any clue will be highly appreciated!
Any other similar picture of another manufacturer welcome!
Thank you very much!
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Alberto Escriña
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 06:06:04 pm »

Hi everyone!
I´m working on a seminar on these days and I would like to find a picture of a huge sound system of JBL cabinets for a Neil Diamond concert of 30++ years ago.
It was a very very big suspended point source array.
I recall I saw it on a JBL advertising banner.
Any clue will be highly appreciated!
Any other similar picture of another manufacturer welcome!
Thank you very much!

Here's a link to the system that I think you are referencing.  http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/re_p_filesstanal_sound_with_new_concert_series_speaker_system_for_neil_diam/live/P2/

Many of the manufacturers have a history section on their websites that may have pics that fit your needs.

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Alberto Escrina

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2014, 08:01:31 pm »

Hi Lee,
Thank you very much for posting the picture.
That´s not the one I was talking about but, in case I can´t find it, it will work for sure.
Yes, I have to look at some manufacturer´s websites. My goal is to show one of the reasons (just one of them) why line arrays became so popular on touring: hanging trap boxes arrays at stadium scale concerts was a nightmare! So any picture from any manufacturer will work.
I´m not looking forward to start any debate or discussion. I know some other reasons that count, but most of them have nothing to do with sound improvement.
Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
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Alberto Escriña
R&D for STS Sound Touring Systems
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Argentina

Lee Buckalew

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 08:21:17 pm »

Hi Lee,
Thank you very much for posting the picture.
That´s not the one I was talking about but, in case I can´t find it, it will work for sure.
Yes, I have to look at some manufacturer´s websites. My goal is to show one of the reasons (just one of them) why line arrays became so popular on touring: hanging trap boxes arrays at stadium scale concerts was a nightmare! So any picture from any manufacturer will work.
I´m not looking forward to start any debate or discussion. I know some other reasons that count, but most of them have nothing to do with sound improvement.
Thanks a lot!
Best regards,

Here is a link to a thread from PSW a number of years ago.  There may be some shots in the links there that you can use.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=110963.0

There are some here:
http://www.turbosound.com/docs2/static_page/Turbosound_History.shtml

Lee
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Lee Buckalew
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Art Welter

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2014, 11:52:45 am »

My goal is to show one of the reasons (just one of them) why line arrays became so popular on touring: hanging trap boxes arrays at stadium scale concerts was a nightmare!
If you think flying trap boxes was a nightmare, check out the "Flying Junkyard" in post #5, composed of various Stanley Screamers from Stanal Sound, Stan Miller's company, Stan used this type of stuff for Neil Diamond before his association with JBL.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700/179203-ot-stan-miller-founder-stanal-sound-stanley-screamers.html
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 12:53:45 pm »

Here's a link to the system that I think you are referencing.  http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/re_p_filesstanal_sound_with_new_concert_series_speaker_system_for_neil_diam/live/P2/

Many of the manufacturers have a history section on their websites that may have pics that fit your needs.

Lee

That looks like a rigging nightmare.... I wonder what the total weight of that hang is?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2014, 02:00:29 pm »

That looks like a rigging nightmare.... I wonder what the total weight of that hang is?
How about the PA that Pink Floyd used for "The wall" tour????????
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Ivan Beaver
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Alberto Escrina

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 02:24:05 pm »

How about the PA that Pink Floyd used for "The wall" tour????????

It´s funny Ivan, that´s the example of "Flying Junkyard" Art posted before.
Thanks to you all.
(Still searching for that JBL / N. Diamond tour advertising)
Rgds,
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Alberto Escriña
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Argentina

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2014, 05:36:12 pm »

It´s funny Ivan, that´s the example of "Flying Junkyard" Art posted before.
Thanks to you all.
(Still searching for that JBL / N. Diamond tour advertising)
Rgds,
I have normally heard the term "flying junkyard" to the systems that Elvis toured with towards the end.  I think it was Clair-but not sure.

Those were basically a platform with the speakers stacked up on them-lifted up by just a few motors.  Not speakers flown from truss or fly points.  Very different approaches.

But I guess you could call most of those old systems "junk yards".
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Alberto Escrina

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2014, 02:43:25 pm »

I have normally heard the term "flying junkyard" to the systems that Elvis toured with towards the end.  I think it was Clair-but not sure.

Those were basically a platform with the speakers stacked up on them-lifted up by just a few motors.  Not speakers flown from truss or fly points.  Very different approaches.

But I guess you could call most of those old systems "junk yards".

This one. Elvis with Clair Bros.
It looks "the flying junkyard" name was specially dedicated to Stan Miller´s design for The Wall.
6+ two ton. motors?
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Alberto Escriña
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Art Welter

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 01:17:00 pm »

This one. Elvis with Clair Bros.
It looks "the flying junkyard" name was specially dedicated to Stan Miller´s design for The Wall.
6+ two ton. motors?
Alberto,

Those all appear to be one ton CM chain motors.
The 2 ton motors Clair used back then were "double chain", using a sheave block. The sheave is a lot heavier than the 1 ton swivel hook, so the riggers had to lug that extra weight and double the chain weight, not fun for a 60' lift. The sheave motors climb at half the speed of the standard Lodestar 1 ton.

Had to do a bit of a search just to locate any pictures clear enough to show "double chain" 2 ton motors, which seem to be going the way of the dinosaur in rock & roll rigging.

Art
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Doug Hammel

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 03:09:58 pm »

Alberto,

Those all appear to be one ton CM chain motors.
The 2 ton motors Clair used back then were "double chain", using a sheave block. The sheave is a lot heavier than the 1 ton swivel hook, so the riggers had to lug that extra weight and double the chain weight, not fun for a 60' lift. The sheave motors climb at half the speed of the standard Lodestar 1 ton.

Had to do a bit of a search just to locate any pictures clear enough to show "double chain" 2 ton motors, which seem to be going the way of the dinosaur in rock & roll rigging.

Art

Have I missed something? I thought two ton motors were "double chain" style. Has something new come out? I also still see lots of "double chain" two ton motors out there on the touring circuit. Seen a Clair rig lately?
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Art Welter

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 04:27:27 pm »

Have I missed something? I thought two ton motors were "double chain" style. Has something new come out? I also still see lots of "double chain" two ton motors out there on the touring circuit. Seen a Clair rig lately?
No, but I'll take your word Clair still has plenty "double chain" two ton motors left, they probably are hard to sell now.

I had never encountered a two ton CM chain motor that was not a double chain and sheave, but couldn't find a single example of that format for the current 2 ton models in CM production industry catalogs, or even a picture of a single used "double chain" CM.

Made me feel like I was lost in a time warp and missed something...

Art

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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 06:11:09 pm »


No, but I'll take your word Clair still has plenty "double chain" two ton motors left, they probably are hard to sell now.

I had never encountered a two ton CM chain motor that was not a double chain and sheave, but couldn't find a single example of that format for the current 2 ton models in CM production industry catalogs, or even a picture of a single used "double chain" CM.

Made me feel like I was lost in a time warp and missed something...

Art

The single chain 2 tons are new.  There are just a few on tour right now and I believe the CM engineers just went out to do a checkup on them before continuing the production run. There are only 30 some in existence from what I understand

All second hand information tho....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Art Welter

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2014, 02:03:22 pm »

The single chain 2 tons are new.
Good, I feel less old now :).
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Riley Casey

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2014, 02:09:16 pm »

Of course no one has commented on how that Clair rig appears to be a pair of one ton motors lifting a dozen 4560 boxes, a dozen JBL aluminum 2355 horns ( with the plaster coating ) all with a single or perhaps double 2440 and four boxes of bullet tweeters plus the weight of the lift deck.  Thats a lot of plywood and Alnico for those two motors to be lifting.  Just saying.

Art Welter

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2014, 03:49:54 pm »

Of course no one has commented on how that Clair rig appears to be a pair of one ton motors lifting a dozen 4560 boxes, a dozen JBL aluminum 2355 horns ( with the plaster coating ) all with a single or perhaps double 2440 and four boxes of bullet tweeters plus the weight of the lift deck.  Thats a lot of plywood and Alnico for those two motors to be lifting.  Just saying.
Riley,

CM motor clutches slip when they are overloaded, "an de deck no fly, mon"  ;).

Makes me remember a system that when I count up the sixteen 320 pound cabinets and steel par 64s must have been pretty close to 8000 pounds on four 1 ton CM motors..

Art
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 03:58:00 pm by Art Welter »
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Riley Casey

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2014, 05:19:13 pm »

I know the sound.  Just commenting on the added bit of craziness of loading the motors to near capacity on top of all the other craziness of the way things were done back in the good old days.  I especially love the upstage cable drop sans pick coming off the corner of the platform.  A good tug on that would probably had interesting results.


CM motor clutches slip when they are overloaded, "an de deck no fly, mon"  ;).

Jim McKeveny

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 07:02:27 am »

Art-

Is that antenna tower?
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Art Welter

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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 09:49:05 am »

Art-

Is that antenna tower?
No, it is Universal Truss, made of aluminum, designed for horizontal use. We had end brackets welded on to use 5/8" graded bolts, the original sleeved sockets would gall up and require an entire crew to pull them apart  ::) .

So many memories of the "good old days"  ;).
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Re: Neil Diamond JBL touring system
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 09:49:05 am »


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