ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Drum channels Alignment  (Read 4226 times)

Brent Venter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Drum channels Alignment
« on: August 20, 2014, 02:27:47 am »

Hi Guys

I'm not getting my head around getting accurate delay times to align drum channels to the overheads.

I can do this by recording the channels into a DAW and acquiring the data from there, however I was trying to do this via Impulse Response on the FFT.

Overhead into ref channel and snare into measurement channel with snare only played is what I tried however I'm not getting to a place to set the receive
delay properly and or getting a coherent impulse response. I did de-active all high-pass and EQ on the console.

Any ideas on a workflow to do it with FFT?

Regards,
Logged
Shake & Bake

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2014, 05:01:11 am »

Hi Guys

I'm not getting my head around getting accurate delay times to align drum channels to the overheads.

I can do this by recording the channels into a DAW and acquiring the data from there, however I was trying to do this via Impulse Response on the FFT.

Overhead into ref channel and snare into measurement channel with snare only played is what I tried however I'm not getting to a place to set the receive
delay properly and or getting a coherent impulse response. I did de-active all high-pass and EQ on the console.

Any ideas on a workflow to do it with FFT?

Regards,

The way you have it set up you would need a negative delay.  The snare impulse is arriving before the overheads.
Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

Merlijn van Veen

  • Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 309
    • www.merlijnvanveen.nl
Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2014, 07:06:48 am »

The way you have it set up you would need a negative delay.  The snare impulse is arriving before the overheads.

+1

Overhead is late to the party, you need to measure by how much and apply it to the snare. So it'll make sense to use this signal as measurement and the snare as reference.

More important does it matter? The overhead to snare distance most likely exceeds the snare mic to snare by 3:1 or 10 dB and vice versa.

If both signals were added to mix proportionally loud, with respect to their designated function, the severity or ripple of the resultant comb filter(s) would be less than 6 dB.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 07:09:10 am by Merlijn van Veen »
Logged

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2014, 10:06:17 am »

...

More important does it matter? The overhead to snare distance most likely exceeds the snare mic to snare by 3:1 or 10 dB and vice versa....

Although the actual db difference will depend on the mic preamp gains, I'm still kind of from the 'does it matter' camp.  If I have multiple overheads live I do try to place them equidistant from the center of the snare, but you are likely going to add reverb t the snare anyway...

Is this a studio setup or live venue performance?   If it's live, if you can move your overheads closer to the main cymbals you are miking you can get the 3:1 or better that Merlin is talking about, but if you have them 'up high' and are picking up a lot of snare then alignment may make sense. I like to keep the overheads right on the cymbals for live gigs then I don't have to worry as much about snare bleed.

If your using the overheads as ambience, then that's a different story.
Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

Steve M Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Isle of Wight - England
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2014, 10:11:16 am »

I'm still kind of from the 'does it matter' camp.

Me too.  It's not anything I have ever considered and I don't think it ever will be!


Steve.
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21244
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2014, 12:33:35 pm »

Although the actual db difference will depend on the mic preamp gains, I'm still kind of from the 'does it matter' camp. 

This.

For recording I suppose you can fiddle about, Uncle Ernie, until you run out of patience or money.  Live?  Meh.  The bleed from the snare drum into the singer's vocal mic is a far, far bigger deal than aligning tom and snare mics to the overheads.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1700
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2014, 09:04:52 pm »

This.

For recording I suppose you can fiddle about, Uncle Ernie, until you run out of patience or money.  Live?  Meh.  The bleed from the snare drum into the singer's vocal mic is a far, far bigger deal than aligning tom and snare mics to the overheads.
And since it seems most folks still seem to like to use dynamic mics on the snare, and condensers on the OH, their phase response wont align regardless of the time alignment, unless FIR filters are employed.
"Fiddle About, Fiddle About"...

Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9023
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2014, 09:21:55 pm »

Consider this:

Each of the overheads will be a different distance to each of the drums.  And each drum will be a different distance to every other drum.

There is no way to get every mic aligned to every other mic.  One mic to another-sure.  But you will be using more than 2 mics-at physically different locations-so every distance is different.

The best bet for a good drum sound is to tune the drums and have the kit working as a single unit.  That makes more of a difference than any mic or delay could possibly do.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Josh Millward

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 713
  • Meridian, MS
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 09:44:26 am »

The best bet for a good drum sound is to tune the drums and have the kit working as a single unit.  That makes more of a difference than any mic or delay could possibly do.

Exactly.

Last night I was mixing a band who shall remain nameless and the drum kit sounded like a pile of poo.

The toms each had different timbre, different decay, different resonance... one of the rack toms sounded like it had a pillow stuffed inside! It sure made me appreciate the other times when I work with other drummers who pay more attention to the tone and tuning of their drum kit. The difference is amazing. 
Logged
Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2498
  • College Station, Texas
    • Daniela Weaver Photography
Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 04:15:11 pm »

I do it with a tape measure
Logged
Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Drum channels Alignment
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 04:15:11 pm »


Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.077 seconds with 22 queries.