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Author Topic: What do you say ...  (Read 4932 times)

Steve M Smith

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2014, 01:03:21 pm »

A Mackie SR24.4 VLZ is not even remotely the worst mixer I've ever used.

After using one all day, I actually got to like it and if I had enough work for one, I would consider owning one, although I would look to see if there were any reliability issues first.

I liked the fact that it had two separate effects sections so I could set one as reverb and one as delay and still have four auxiliaries for monitors.

It would be good for smaller gigs coupled with some active speakers and very little outboard gear - just a few graphic equalisers.  I know this can be done as an all in one package with a digital mixer but not at the same price.


Steve
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Stephen Gregory

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2014, 12:48:51 am »

What do you say when your friend goes out and buys a bunch of Behringer equipment and then asks you if it's good?

I would say it depends very much which equipment she bought.

I got a Behringer B210D thrown in with secondhand purchase a few years ago, and since it was for nothing, I took it.  It has been nothing but trouble since, though.  Every time we need an extra foldback speaker I think - it's just a paper cone and a magnet, how different can it be? It usually takes about 5 minutes of soundcheck to remember exactly how different. It's fine if you don't turn it up past about a quarter of its gain, but after that it is a feedback machine. YMMV. It sits next to boxes that cost about twice as much, and I was very very happy to pay the money for them.

On the other hand, I will very happily use a X32 desk, and was for many years a happy X V-Amp user (multi-FX pedal for guitar). There is nothing wrong with their Ultra DIs either. Most of their rack gear is not glamorous, but it generally works, to a first approximation.
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Craig Smith

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 10:30:34 am »

Thanks everyone!  Great advice as usual, wish I could reply to each post.  She is not only a good friend but my next-door neighbor.  She's a very independent person though.  I've offered to help her pick out gear before but she just does her own thing; I guess she trusts the salespeople more.  She said she heard Behringer was a good brand.  I ended up telling her that Behringer wasn't the best but has been getting better and will probably do fine and was probably a good deal for the money -- she got this newer gear used.

She sings OK but I can't say she has a great ear for sound, but I can't say I do either.  Sometimes you have to hear things side-by-side to really hear the difference.  She's been using a Yamaha powered mixer with their cheapest speakers, and was plenty happy with it.  Last year she bought a couple Behringer powered speakers at GC, and recently we compared them with the Yamahas, and she preferred the Yamaha because she could hear the mids more so she uses the B's as monitors.  Here newer gear consists of two B1520 Pro tops and two B1800X subs, with a single EP2500 amp, along with a Behringer mixer and a bunch of mics and others stuff.  She wanted to know if she needed another amp and a crossover, which is a good question.  The speaker I/O was interesting, so I downloaded the manuals.  I can't make total sense of them but it appears the subs have built-in crossovers and it's actually designed to drive both pairs of speakers with the single amp.  Not sure how well that works.  I can't say they sound very good to my ears but with some EQ it was better (but I'm not a fan of using much EQ).  She formed an all-girl band and they're getting lots of gigs now and she needed something louder.  I never believe in buying bottom of the line anything, but they'll probably work for a while.  They're pretty heavy though; not sure how she'll manage.

My current main setup consists of an 01v96i mixer with PRX speakers.  I was initially going to go with York or FBT or RCF or something like that, but decided to go with JBL for a couple reasons.  And the speakers I heard that were a lot better were out of my price range and heavier, and weight was important to me as I have back problems.

But I freely admit that I did many years with a Mackie 1402 mixer and the original Eon 10p speakers.  When I bought the speakers in the '90s I compared every "cheap" option I could find and the Eons were clearly better (they were the only self-powered speakers at the time).  But I must say I never liked the sound of the 15" Eons.  Regarding mixers Behringer was new at the time but I passed on them in favor of the Mackie.  Both the mixer and speakers are still working fine with just a couple minor issues, and I still use them occasionally for small outdoor things where they might be subject to the elements.

Unfortunately I will probably have to sell all my gear as we are having financial issues, so this may be the end of an "era" for me.  I haven't done that much anyway lately.

P.S. I should mention that money is not really an issue for her.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 11:59:05 am by Craig Smith »
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Steve Oldridge

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 11:02:18 am »

We did the first gig with our new X32 Producer - yesterday.. Sunday afternoon... 
I have used B*ringer gear before, and it was often hit or miss (or budget related).   

I was SERIOUSLY impressed with the sound quality from the X32 - even the built-in effects which on most boards have tended to be "usable". These were VERY GOOD!! Looking forward to more gigs with it as we get it dialed in more. This first gig was a seat of the pants mix (we mix from stage, and did nothing with compression/gates except on kick and bass) and we did not use our IEM's.

Next gig (friday) we'll be back on IEM's so need to work thru the setup on those.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 12:35:13 pm »

Thanks everyone!  Great advice as usual, wish I could reply to each post.  She is not only a good friend but my next-door neighbor.  She's a very independent person though.  I've offered to help her pick out gear before but she just does her own thing; I guess she trusts the salespeople more.  She said she heard Behringer was a good brand.  I ended up telling her that Behringer wasn't the best but has been getting better and will probably do fine and was probably a good deal for the money -- she got this newer gear used.

She sings OK but I can't say she has a great ear for sound, but I can't say I do either.  Sometimes you have to hear things side-by-side to really hear the difference.  She's been using a Yamaha powered mixer with their cheapest speakers, and was plenty happy with it.  Last year she bought a couple Behringer powered speakers at GC, and recently we compared them with the Yamahas, and she preferred the Yamaha because she could hear the mids more so she uses the B's as monitors.  Here newer gear consists of two B1520 Pro tops and two B1800X subs, with a single EP2500 amp, along with a Behringer mixer and a bunch of mics and others stuff.  She wanted to know if she needed another amp and a crossover, which is a good question.  The speaker I/O was interesting, so I downloaded the manuals.  I can't make total sense of them but it appears the subs have built-in crossovers and it's actually designed to drive both pairs of speakers with the single amp.  Not sure how well that works.  I can't say they sound very good to my ears but with some EQ it was better (but I'm not a fan of using much EQ).  She formed an all-girl band and they're getting lots of gigs now and she needed something louder.  I never believe in buying bottom of the line anything, but they'll probably work for a while.  They're pretty heavy though; not sure how she'll manage.

My current main setup consists of an 01v96i mixer with PRX speakers.  I was initially going to go with York or FBT or RCF or something like that, but decided to go with JBL for a couple reasons.  And the speakers I heard that were a lot better were out of my price range and heavier, and weight was important to me as I have back problems.

But I freely admit that I did many years with a Mackie 1402 mixer and the original Eon 10p speakers.  When I bought the speakers in the '90s I compared every "cheap" option I could find and the Eons were clearly better (they were the only self-powered speakers at the time).  But I must say I never liked the sound of the 15" Eons.  Regarding mixers Behringer was new at the time but I passed on them in favor of the Mackie.  Both the mixer and speakers are still working fine with just a couple minor issues, and I still use them occasionally for small outdoor things where they might be subject to the elements.

Unfortunately I will probably have to sell all my gear as we are having financial issues, so this may be the end of an "era" for me.  I haven't done that much anyway lately.

P.S. I should mention that money is not really an issue for her.

Sorry to hear that Craig. Hang in there brother.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2014, 12:53:55 pm »

Thanks everyone!  Great advice as usual, wish I could reply to each post.  She is not only a good friend but my next-door neighbor.  She's a very independent person though.  I've offered to help her pick out gear before but she just does her own thing; I guess she trusts the salespeople more.  She said she heard Behringer was a good brand.  I ended up telling her that Behringer wasn't the best but has been getting better and will probably do fine and was probably a good deal for the money -- she got this newer gear used.

She sings OK but I can't say she has a great ear for sound, but I can't say I do either.  Sometimes you have to hear things side-by-side to really hear the difference.  She's been using a Yamaha powered mixer with their cheapest speakers, and was plenty happy with it.  Last year she bought a couple Behringer powered speakers at GC, and recently we compared them with the Yamahas, and she preferred the Yamaha because she could hear the mids more so she uses the B's as monitors.  Here newer gear consists of two B1520 Pro tops and two B1800X subs, with a single EP2500 amp, along with a Behringer mixer and a bunch of mics and others stuff.  She wanted to know if she needed another amp and a crossover, which is a good question.  The speaker I/O was interesting, so I downloaded the manuals.  I can't make total sense of them but it appears the subs have built-in crossovers and it's actually designed to drive both pairs of speakers with the single amp.  Not sure how well that works.  I can't say they sound very good to my ears but with some EQ it was better (but I'm not a fan of using much EQ).  She formed an all-girl band and they're getting lots of gigs now and she needed something louder.  I never believe in buying bottom of the line anything, but they'll probably work for a while.  They're pretty heavy though; not sure how she'll manage.

My current main setup consists of an 01v96i mixer with PRX speakers.  I was initially going to go with York or FBT or RCF or something like that, but decided to go with JBL for a couple reasons.  And the speakers I heard that were a lot better were out of my price range and heavier, and weight was important to me as I have back problems.

But I freely admit that I did many years with a Mackie 1402 mixer and the original Eon 10p speakers.  When I bought the speakers in the '90s I compared every "cheap" option I could find and the Eons were clearly better (they were the only self-powered speakers at the time).  But I must say I never liked the sound of the 15" Eons.  Regarding mixers Behringer was new at the time but I passed on them in favor of the Mackie.  Both the mixer and speakers are still working fine with just a couple minor issues, and I still use them occasionally for small outdoor things where they might be subject to the elements.

Unfortunately I will probably have to sell all my gear as we are having financial issues, so this may be the end of an "era" for me.  I haven't done that much anyway lately.

P.S. I should mention that money is not really an issue for her.

Craig - If you have a small amp and crossover you some word working skills you could help her out a bunch.

The B "pro" series are not the junk the carpet covered stuff is.  The cabinets are sturdy.  Keep a couple extra hf diaphragm around. However like most things Behringer does they lost it in the execution.

On the input panel of the 1800's is a biamp/passthrough switch.  It selects the internal crossover or passes 2+/2- on the NL-4 in to 1+/1- on the out.  This is so you can run a 4 conduction cable to the speakers and then a conventional jumper to the tops.  The crossover is poorly built but the switch is the real weak link.  It does not have a good detent and it arcs and the gets resistive.  Take it out and hard wire it for biamp. 

There are three mods that combined together really improve the cabinet.

1 - Finish constructing it.  Take out the drivers.  Put screws in where they used an air nailer.  Run a strip of 1/2" hardwood about 2" wide on all the joints. Screw and glue.  Seal up the holes.  Put another furring strip in to reinforce the handles.  Now solder that switch we talked about and reflow the solder on the NL4's 

2 - Slightly relieve the ports,  it will go a long way to eliminate the chuffing sound as turbulent air exits the ports. 

3 - Replace the stamped Behringer speaker with a B&C I will post the part number.  It is a drop in and handles 2000w program.  New $180.00

As far as the tops.  IMHO since the sub is taking low duties a 15" is the wrong driver.  Especially for vocals.  She would have been much happier with the B-1220's than the 15", the 12's are much tighter.

I hope things improve for you, keep the faith.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2014, 01:04:31 pm »

But it's just for an upstart band so it doesn't really matter. 

Yes, it really DOES matter.  Some gear is garbage, and should not be used, even by the worst bands out there.  Cheap Behringer speakers, stuff with piezo tweeters, etc, can't be made to sound good no matter what.  This will not bode well for an upstart band.  The cost difference to get decent used gear would be minimal, but newbies are scared of used for some reason, especially when new garbage can be purchased for less.

Now, since they've purchased already, it's too late to ask for advice.  But being as blunt as I am, I'm not shy to tell someone if they have a turd in their rig that is causing things to smell.
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Brian Jojade

Craig Smith

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2014, 12:31:51 am »

Sorry to hear that Craig. Hang in there brother.
Thanks!
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Craig Smith

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2014, 12:41:46 am »

Craig - If you have a small amp and crossover you some word working skills you could help her out a bunch.

The B "pro" series are not the junk the carpet covered stuff is.  The cabinets are sturdy.  Keep a couple extra hf diaphragm around. However like most things Behringer does they lost it in the execution.

On the input panel of the 1800's is a biamp/passthrough switch.  It selects the internal crossover or passes 2+/2- on the NL-4 in to 1+/1- on the out.  This is so you can run a 4 conduction cable to the speakers and then a conventional jumper to the tops.  The crossover is poorly built but the switch is the real weak link.  It does not have a good detent and it arcs and the gets resistive.  Take it out and hard wire it for biamp. 

There are three mods that combined together really improve the cabinet.

1 - Finish constructing it.  Take out the drivers.  Put screws in where they used an air nailer.  Run a strip of 1/2" hardwood about 2" wide on all the joints. Screw and glue.  Seal up the holes.  Put another furring strip in to reinforce the handles.  Now solder that switch we talked about and reflow the solder on the NL4's 

2 - Slightly relieve the ports,  it will go a long way to eliminate the chuffing sound as turbulent air exits the ports. 

3 - Replace the stamped Behringer speaker with a B&C I will post the part number.  It is a drop in and handles 2000w program.  New $180.00

As far as the tops.  IMHO since the sub is taking low duties a 15" is the wrong driver.  Especially for vocals.  She would have been much happier with the B-1220's than the 15", the 12's are much tighter.

I hope things improve for you, keep the faith.
Thanks very much.  The switch actually has a plate over it to keep it from moving.  Yes, they are sturdy cabinets.  We're going to give them a test at an outdoor gig in a couple weeks and I'll see how she feels about "fixing" them.

I only have powered speakers so I don't have an amp to sell; I do have a digital system processor but it's way more than she wants to pay for a simple crossover.  I may sell her my EQ.

I totally agree regarding 12" vs. 15".
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Steve Garris

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Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2014, 06:25:37 pm »

I'll probably get flamed here, but I have a bunch of Behringer B212 powered boxes that work exceptionally well, and can get pretty loud. I still use them today for monitor duty. I've had them for 5 or 6 years now with no problems. I can walk in to the club with two, one in each hand. I use them right along side of my Yamaha DSR's - never any complaints. I've covered up the yellow badge on the speaker grill.

I've got some friends that use a single B215 for their entire PA and monitor. They're a 3-peice and all 3 sing. They don't push it hard, and the band sounds fantastic.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What do you say ...
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2014, 06:25:37 pm »


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