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Author Topic: The high cost of deploying a true line-array  (Read 19936 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2014, 07:47:08 am »

About time  :)  Although I have never heard any of your boxes, I'm sure they sound great; but from my perspective as a contrator most of your boxes are usless to me because of their size, weight, truck pack, storage, flexability etc.

Can't weight to see what you guys have done.
Just curious as to your statements.

Truck pack-a large number of the cabinets (subs and tops) for portable situations are standard truck pack dimensions-at least in one dimension-sometimes all 3.  Do you have an example of some that are not?

Weight/size.  Have you considered how many of other products it would take to equal the same SPL output? and then considered the size and weight of "equal SPL".  You will find that the weight is pretty small then.

For example our J1 is around 800ish lbs.   But yet people push line array stacks off the truck that weigh more than that and it takes more of them to equal the output, and somehow the J1 is heavy?

I am not sure what you mean by "flexible" and "storage".  Can you explain a bit more?

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2014, 08:50:37 am »

Possibly that it's easier to move around 8 - 100lb boxes then 1 - 800lb box? Just a guess.
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2014, 10:59:25 am »

Interesting question on compact and subcompact.  Does anyone have any experience with a subcompact like the Vue AL-4?  Making a 10' line of 4" boxes would be a huge capital investment.  These don't seem to be positioned for smaller venues but when Live Sound does a roundup there seem to be quite a few competitors in this space.  Do the smaller drivers truly couple better?  I can imagine they are very accurate.

I don't have any business or application reason for asking this other than curiosity.

Have used the AL4 and while it doesnt have much for lows the sound of vocals through it is pretty awesome.  We also just did an event a couple weeks ago with about 5000 people in attendance with four AL8s per side, ground stacked.  It sounded fantastic!  We had to cover an area approximately 150 feet wide by 200+ feet deep with a slight incline.  We had plenty of output and consistant sound quality throughout the area.  Didn't measure spl but it was pretty darn loud even in the back.  When you buy a system such as the AL4s and AL8s you are not just buying speakers.  It is a complete system with amps, made to work together for efficient setup and consistant sound.  They sell them in blocks of four with an amp. 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2014, 12:29:05 pm »

Possibly that it's easier to move around 8 - 100lb boxes then 1 - 800lb box? Just a guess.
But if the 8 boxes are stacked on a cart-and you move the whole cart-what is the difference?

Of course some people like to compare the cost "Well one of your boxes costs so much more than one of ours".

FINE-If you want to play that game-then lets LISTEN to ONE of yours to one of ours-since every other comparison has been one for one.

To me it is the TOTAL cost/weight etc of investment-not a single piece.
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Ivan Beaver
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2014, 12:48:09 pm »

Have used the AL4 and while it doesnt have much for lows the sound of vocals through it is pretty awesome.  We also just did an event a couple weeks ago with about 5000 people in attendance with four AL8s per side, ground stacked.  It sounded fantastic!  We had to cover an area approximately 150 feet wide by 200+ feet deep with a slight incline.  We had plenty of output and consistant sound quality throughout the area.  Didn't measure spl but it was pretty darn loud even in the back.  When you buy a system such as the AL4s and AL8s you are not just buying speakers.  It is a complete system with amps, made to work together for efficient setup and consistant sound.  They sell them in blocks of four with an amp.

Ray familiar with the System Engine and the backing software.  Would you be willing to chat about the AL Series and your business experience with the folks at Vue?  If so should this be a public thread everyone can benefit from or something best done in private?
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Robert Lunceford

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2014, 04:48:29 pm »

The answer to your question:  "about the same as you'd get with a similarly sized '90x40' cab."  You'd have 30 of vertical with 2 15 boxes.

Hi Tim,
If this is true, I have had a great misunderstanding in regard to vertical dispersion of a line array.
I thought that if you stacked two boxes with a 15 degree vertical dispersion that they would maintain the vertical dispersion. If anything, I thought that the vertical dispersion would decrease.
As an example, the published spec for a single Bose 802II is a vertical dispersion of 100 degrees, for a stacked pair the vertical dispersion is 80 degrees.

So, if stacking two 15 degree vertical dispersion elements gives you 30 degrees of vertical dispersion,
what would the vertical dispersion be if you stacked 10 elements?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2014, 04:54:59 pm »

Hi Tim,
If this is true, I have had a great misunderstanding in regard to vertical dispersion of a line array.
I thought that if you stacked two boxes with a 15 degree vertical dispersion that they would maintain the vertical dispersion. If anything, I thought that the vertical dispersion would decrease.
As an example, the published spec for a single Bose 802II is a vertical dispersion of 100 degrees, for a stacked pair the vertical dispersion is 80 degrees.

So, if stacking two 15 degree vertical dispersion elements gives you 30 degrees of vertical dispersion,
what would the vertical dispersion be if you stacked 10 elements?

At what frequency?  With what inter-box splay angles?
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2014, 05:14:23 pm »

Hi Tim,
If this is true, I have had a great misunderstanding in regard to vertical dispersion of a line array.
I thought that if you stacked two boxes with a 15 degree vertical dispersion that they would maintain the vertical dispersion. If anything, I thought that the vertical dispersion would decrease.
As an example, the published spec for a single Bose 802II is a vertical dispersion of 100 degrees, for a stacked pair the vertical dispersion is 80 degrees.

So, if stacking two 15 degree vertical dispersion elements gives you 30 degrees of vertical dispersion,
what would the vertical dispersion be if you stacked 10 elements?
Robert, it would be helpful for you to play with a line array calculator.  JBL's LAC is free with registration: http://jblpro.com/catalog/general/SoftwareRegistration

That will help answer a lot of your questions.
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Art Welter

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2014, 06:19:46 pm »

1)As an example, the published spec for a single Bose 802II is a vertical dispersion of 100 degrees, for a stacked pair the vertical dispersion is 80 degrees.
2)So, if stacking two 15 degree vertical dispersion elements gives you 30 degrees of vertical dispersion, what would the vertical dispersion be if you stacked 10 elements?
1) The Bose 802 uses small cone drivers, the dispersion is determined by the line length and "beaming", cone loudspeakers are roughly 90 degrees to the wavelength of the speaker diameter.
2) The vertical dispersion angle of the high frequency horn used in a line array determines the splay angle that can (should) be used. If the elements are wide vertical dispersion (15 degrees is relatively wide for a line array) and run "flat front", rather than curved as the horn design would dictate, the HF will have destructive interference anywhere but directly on axis, and to be on axis would require an infinite distance.

As Tim's questions indicate, the vertical dispersion would vary with frequency (and position), from virtually no vertical dispersion at high frequency to lobes that could be wider than the HF horn's nominal dispersion.
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Peter Morris

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Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2014, 07:51:04 pm »

Possibly that it's easier to move around 8 - 100lb boxes then 1 - 800lb box? Just a guess.

Exactly -- 800 lbs is way too much.

Running a sound company is probably more about logistics than sound.  Companies like L-Acoustics and d&b provide an excellent set of products and logistical solutions.

Danley not so much.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: The high cost of deploying a true line-array
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2014, 07:51:04 pm »


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