ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: LED Talks - SurgeX Now Live Until Sept 6th  (Read 7293 times)

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3356
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 06:35:14 am »

Martin,

There's another thread discussing power line "surges" that you could comment on: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,151030.msg1385160.html#new

Please keep your comments on this LED Thread.

Mike Sokol
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3356
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2014, 08:00:13 am »

Everyone,

We've had a delay with the start of the SurgeX LED Talk. Martin was out on an unscheduled business trip and just returned last night. Hopefully he's back to his office today and can begin his LED Talk. So whenever he starts, I'll extend his talk time for a full week.

Mike Sokol
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Martin Dornfeld

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2014, 12:13:13 pm »

Let me prime the pump with a few general questions. I know the answer to a lot of these, but remember we're asking questions for everyone here.

What makes SurgeX technology different from surge strips you can buy in a hardware store?

Will any of these surge protection technologies stop dimmer buzz from getting into amplifiers and speakers?

Will any SurgeX products help prevent brownout conditions (low voltage)?

Will any SurgeX products help with over-voltage conditions?

Will they help prevent damage from nearby lightning strikes?

Do your products draw any appreciable power while nothing in the room is turned on?

Is there anything in them that "wears out" like MOV devices or whatever?

The attached file provides a general overview of our Advanced Series Mode surge elimination and other core technologies, including our COUVS over/under voltage protection.  The technology is able to withstand the most surge energy that can be present on a branch circuit, even in the event of a nearby lightning strike (6,000V & 3,000A).  Unlike traditional "surge suppressors" which simply divert surge energy to the ground, or neutral, our technology completely eliminates the surge without causing ground/neutral wire contamination (which is critical in integrated AV systems).
Logged
Martin Dornfeld
Northern Regional Manager and Director of Consultant Engagement, ESP/SurgeX
www.surgex.com

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3356
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2014, 01:10:26 pm »

The attached file provides a general overview of our Advanced Series Mode surge elimination and other core technologies, including our COUVS over/under voltage protection.  The technology is able to withstand the most surge energy that can be present on a branch circuit, even in the event of a nearby lightning strike (6,000V & 3,000A).  Unlike traditional "surge suppressors" which simply divert surge energy to the ground, or neutral, our technology completely eliminates the surge without causing ground/neutral wire contamination (which is critical in integrated AV systems).

Tom, so do the inductors listed in the first stage form a single-order low-pass filter in series with the incoming power? I'm guessing that part of the trick for good surge suppression is to begin with filtering the high-frequency energy "spike" using a series inductance, rather than using a brute-force short to ground which is how a MOV works. And a MOV simply shorting this energy to "ground" is what causes "ground" contamination. Am I thinking about this correctly? 
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Martin Dornfeld

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2014, 02:43:01 pm »

Tom, so do the inductors listed in the first stage form a single-order low-pass filter in series with the incoming power? I'm guessing that part of the trick for good surge suppression is to begin with filtering the high-frequency energy "spike" using a series inductance, rather than using a brute-force short to ground which is how a MOV works. And a MOV simply shorting this energy to "ground" is what causes "ground" contamination. Am I thinking about this correctly?

You got it.  The core technology is a low pass filter in series with the AC. 
Logged
Martin Dornfeld
Northern Regional Manager and Director of Consultant Engagement, ESP/SurgeX
www.surgex.com

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3356
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2014, 06:47:05 am »

Let me take a shot at it and then SurgeX can react to what I write.

Assume you have a mixer at FOH plugged into a MOV protected Power source.  This mixer is connected to a amp at the front of the church and that amp is plugged into another MOV protected power source.

You get a spike on the amp circuit.  (Perhaps a nearby lightning hit)   The MOV does its job and shunts this spike to ground. This spike is somewhere in the 1000 to 2000 volt range.  Well actually it shunts the spike to the green safety ground wire.  BIG difference.  We tend to think of ground as a big perfect sink for all things electrical.  In this case we have connected a high voltage thus high current spike to a few hundred feet of #12 wire.  The #12 wire instantly looks up ohms law and decides to have a voltage between the safety ground connection at the surge suppressor and the ground buss in the breaker panel.   So,  for an instant, there is a high voltage at the safety ground connection for the amp.  This voltage is applied to pin one on the amp, and to the shields coming from the mixer, and to pin one on the mixer.  The mixer finds itself connected to a voltage divider half way between the high voltage on pin one at the amp and it's own 100 ft run to the breaker panel.

Unhappy mixer.

A little help here SurgeX

Martin, can you comment on this?
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Martin Dornfeld

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2014, 12:59:39 pm »

Martin, can you comment on this?

In the event of a nearby lightning strike an effective MOV based surge suppressor could actually dump the better part of 6,000V to the safety ground, and yes it will take the path of least resistance.  The safety ground is tied to pin one, as well as the ground of audio cables and the comparative reference for the internal "zero volt" ground in switch mode power supplies.  It has the potential to make a lot of things unhappy.  Shunting to ground (or neutral) is not a good thing in integrated audio systems.
Logged
Martin Dornfeld
Northern Regional Manager and Director of Consultant Engagement, ESP/SurgeX
www.surgex.com

Mark Cadwallader

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1282
  • Helena, Montana USA
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX Now Live Until Aug 26th
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2014, 02:42:56 pm »

Martin, I am not an engineer or an electician (so I hope I'm not asking a dumb question), but if the energy doesn't get shunted to ground, I assume that it can only otherwise be dissipated by being changed into heat. Is that the case?  If so, how much heat can be safely dissipated in a rack-mount device?  If not, what happens?  Mark C.
Logged
"Good tools are expensive, but cheap tools are damned expensive."

Martin Dornfeld

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX Now Live Until Aug 26th
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 11:54:40 am »

Martin, I am not an engineer or an electician (so I hope I'm not asking a dumb question), but if the energy doesn't get shunted to ground, I assume that it can only otherwise be dissipated by being changed into heat. Is that the case?  If so, how much heat can be safely dissipated in a rack-mount device?  If not, what happens?  Mark C.

Great question!  The inductors provide resistance to the high frequency energy associated with the surge.  With the two inductors wound in opposite directions, we are also developing offsetting voltage between the two in order to further cancel the surge.  Technically, the energy is dissipated as nominal heat via the inductors.  However, since all of this is happening in a millisecond timeframe this “heat” never has a chance to build.  As a result, there is no impact on BTU ratings.
Logged
Martin Dornfeld
Northern Regional Manager and Director of Consultant Engagement, ESP/SurgeX
www.surgex.com

Frank DeWitt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 996
    • LBP DI Box
Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2014, 08:07:37 pm »

In the event of a nearby lightning strike an effective MOV based surge suppressor could actually dump the better part of 6,000V to the safety ground, and yes it will take the path of least resistance.  The safety ground is tied to pin one, as well as the ground of audio cables and the comparative reference for the internal "zero volt" ground in switch mode power supplies.  It has the potential to make a lot of things unhappy.  Shunting to ground (or neutral) is not a good thing in integrated audio systems.

I think this is the big takeaway.  If you can't afford surgex for a sound system, use nothing.  If you need a bunch of outlets don't use a power strip with MOVs.  This is what pushed me to get two surgeX one for the booth and one for the amp rack up front.  The good news is that some surgeX models have sequential power on and off and low voltage control for the other surgeX so that adds some value.

The other good news is that these things seem to be under valued on ebay
Logged
Not to Code

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2014, 08:07:37 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.115 seconds with 22 queries.