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Author Topic: LED Talks - SurgeX Now Live Until Sept 6th  (Read 7268 times)

Mike Sokol

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LED Talks - SurgeX Now Live Until Sept 6th
« on: July 30, 2014, 01:53:20 pm »

I'm pleased to announce that SurgeX will be participating in the next LED Talks beginning Aug 18th and will monitor and answer your posts for a period of one week from that day. Martin Dornfeld, Northern Regional Manager and Director of Consultant Engagement for SurgX will be leading this discussion. In the meantime, please post any preliminary questions you have about surge protection in general and SurgeX products specifically on this thread. I'll pass them onto SurgeX in advance, then begin a new thread on Aug 18th for our official LED Talk session.

Mike Sokol
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 11:23:44 am by Mike Sokol »
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Mike Sokol

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 10:26:17 am »

Let me prime the pump with a few general questions. I know the answer to a lot of these, but remember we're asking questions for everyone here.

What makes SurgeX technology different from surge strips you can buy in a hardware store?

Will any of these surge protection technologies stop dimmer buzz from getting into amplifiers and speakers?

Will any SurgeX products help prevent brownout conditions (low voltage)?

Will any SurgeX products help with over-voltage conditions?

Will they help prevent damage from nearby lightning strikes?

Do your products draw any appreciable power while nothing in the room is turned on?

Is there anything in them that "wears out" like MOV devices or whatever?
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Mike Sokol
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 11:03:12 am »

The one that took a bit of study to get my head around is the statement I have heard that if you have a system fed by two different circuits in different parts of a building (Such as amps at the front and the sound board at FOH) and you don't use SurgeX,  you are better off with no protection then with MOV protection at each end.  I understand it and use SurgeX but I am sure there explanation will be much better then mine.

BTW The SurgeX advantages are not well understood by the regular population and therefor there products often go for very reasonable prices on Ebay. 
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Mike Sokol

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2014, 09:59:36 am »

The one that took a bit of study to get my head around is the statement I have heard that if you have a system fed by two different circuits in different parts of a building (Such as amps at the front and the sound board at FOH) and you don't use SurgeX,  you are better off with no protection then with MOV protection at each end.  I understand it and use SurgeX but I am sure there explanation will be much better then mine.

BTW The SurgeX advantages are not well understood by the regular population and therefor there products often go for very reasonable prices on Ebay.

Good question. Is this really true? If so, what's the mechanism? I'm thinking that you're considering the antenna effect of all the signal connections running between the gear. I know there's something called a lightning side-flash which can occur between non grounded but powered gear and building metal. Is that what you're referring to? So do SurgeX products remove enough of that lightning energy from the AC lines to prevent this from happening?
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Mike Sokol
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 10:51:06 am »

Good question. Is this really true? If so, what's the mechanism? I'm thinking that you're considering the antenna effect of all the signal connections running between the gear. I know there's something called a lightning side-flash which can occur between non grounded but powered gear and building metal. Is that what you're referring to? So do SurgeX products remove enough of that lightning energy from the AC lines to prevent this from happening?

Let me take a shot at it and then SurgeX can react to what I write.

Assume you have a mixer at FOH plugged into a MOV protected Power source.  This mixer is connected to a amp at the front of the church and that amp is plugged into another MOV protected power source.

You get a spike on the amp circuit.  (Perhaps a nearby lightning hit)   The MOV does its job and shunts this spike to ground. This spike is somewhere in the 1000 to 2000 volt range.  Well actually it shunts the spike to the green safety ground wire.  BIG difference.  We tend to think of ground as a big perfect sink for all things electrical.  In this case we have connected a high voltage thus high current spike to a few hundred feet of #12 wire.  The #12 wire instantly looks up ohms law and decides to have a voltage between the safety ground connection at the surge suppressor and the ground buss in the breaker panel.   So,  for an instant, there is a high voltage at the safety ground connection for the amp.  This voltage is applied to pin one on the amp, and to the shields coming from the mixer, and to pin one on the mixer.  The mixer finds itself connected to a voltage divider half way between the high voltage on pin one at the amp and it's own 100 ft run to the breaker panel.

Unhappy mixer.

A little help here SurgeX
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Mike Sokol

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 02:28:05 pm »

I was hooking up a little backyard PA system for a family picnic over the weekend, and noticed that my surge strip had an indicator light supposedly testing the "surge protection". Yeah, this was only a $20 MOV protected strip and not too fancy. So are those "surge protection" lights for real? Do they really test the MOV devices to make sure they haven't had too many voltage spikes and are dead? Or are the lights just on all the time to make you FEEL protected?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 07:10:09 am by Mike Sokol »
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 11:30:25 pm »

I was hooking up a little backyard PA system for a family picnic over the weekend, and noticed that my surge strip had an indicator light supposedly testing the "surge protection". Yeah, this was only a $20 MOV protected strip and not too fancy. So is those "surge protection" lights for real? Do they really test the MOV devices to make sure they haven't had too many voltage spikes and are dead? Or are the lights just on all the time to make you FEEL protected?

Never having bothered to take the case off one, my WAG is that the led is downstream of the MOV, so that if/when the MOV is dead, no more little green light. "Dead" versus "not completely dead" isn't much of a test, but arguably better than nothing.  I look forward to being educated by SurgeX. Mark C.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 07:14:40 am »

Here's another question from CSC

Mike

Are Furman and Juice Goose power conditioners also surge protectors, or are
both conditioners and protectors needed together? How do UPS units fare at
these jobs? What's the hookup order if all are needed?
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Mike Sokol
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Martin Dornfeld

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Re: LED Talks - SurgeX starting Aug 18th
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 05:04:25 pm »

Let me take a shot at it and then SurgeX can react to what I write.

Assume you have a mixer at FOH plugged into a MOV protected Power source.  This mixer is connected to a amp at the front of the church and that amp is plugged into another MOV protected power source.

You get a spike on the amp circuit.  (Perhaps a nearby lightning hit)   The MOV does its job and shunts this spike to ground. This spike is somewhere in the 1000 to 2000 volt range.  Well actually it shunts the spike to the green safety ground wire.  BIG difference.  We tend to think of ground as a big perfect sink for all things electrical.  In this case we have connected a high voltage thus high current spike to a few hundred feet of #12 wire.  The #12 wire instantly looks up ohms law and decides to have a voltage between the safety ground connection at the surge suppressor and the ground buss in the breaker panel.   So,  for an instant, there is a high voltage at the safety ground connection for the amp.  This voltage is applied to pin one on the amp, and to the shields coming from the mixer, and to pin one on the mixer.  The mixer finds itself connected to a voltage divider half way between the high voltage on pin one at the amp and it's own 100 ft run to the breaker panel.

Unhappy mixer.

A little help here SurgeX

MOV based "surge suppressors", whether $10 strip, or higher end rack-mount product, will shunt surge energy to either the neutral, or ground.  This means that the better part of 6,000 volts and 3,000 amps (maximum surge energy before arch over) could be introduced to the ground (pin one, cable shields, power supply zero reference ground, etc.), and that energy will follow the lowest impedance path to "wherever".  Additionally, a percentage of that surge energy still gets through to the connected equipment on the "hot.  That's why they are called "suppressors".  If you have a direct, or extremely close, lightning strike, then you will likely be exposed to the associated electromagnetic pulse, which will simply induce itself onto anything and everything that is not otherwise shielded.  SurgeX's surge elimination technology will stop the maximum voltage/amperage that could be carried by a branch circuit (even in the event of lightning) before the building wiring is actually compromised.
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Martin Dornfeld
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 05:08:24 pm »

MOV based "surge

Please read the posting rules and fix your displayed name as required.

Mac
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 05:08:24 pm »


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