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Author Topic: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons  (Read 4543 times)

Brandon Wright

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New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« on: July 28, 2014, 12:10:24 pm »

Here we go again.  ::)

For my personal rig I am looking to replace my KF650z with two SH96HO.

While I am at it, I'm looking at going with some different subs. Currently I have 4 TH118.

Having heard most of the Danley lineup, I have come to the conclusion that I prefer traditional folded horns rather than the tapped horns. Like has been said in other discussions, I believe my subjective opinion comes from the better transient response, impact, blah blah blah.

The obvious choice here seems the be the BC415. However, I like the form factor of the DBH218LC better in a one per side configuration (Don't really need the extra extension, just the form factor). When stood on end it would provide a nice stand for the SH96 and match the 45" width, while still being a fairly compact setup.

Now, it seems like the BC415 should have considerably more output based on it being the holy grail and all. Also, in Danley Direct, there is no comparison between the two. However, in comparing sensitivities (extrapolating from the dbh218 spec sheet) the equalized sensitivities should be fairly close when accounting for the lower impedance of the BC415. The BC415 should have 3dbish more output potential due to twice as many drivers with the same power rating. (In either case, each driver would likely get a channel of powersoft x series)

I could just get 4 more Th118s. I'm fairly convinced that this would provide more output where I need it, but at a greater expense, more weight, more boxes to move, and doesn't get me the FLH I want. However, they could be stacked to be 45" wide and 80" tall.

 I could sell my Th118s and offset nearly all  of the cost of 2xDBH218LC and a lot of 2xBC415.

I don't know what I want to do.

I think next week I'll get the chance to demo 2xth118 vs 1xdbh218. That will help. Is it safe to assume that the dbh218lc doesn't give up any sensitivity for its extension, as compared to the standard dbh218?

Thoughts, input, blows to the head?
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Doug Fowler

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Re: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 01:25:55 pm »

Here we go again.  ::)

For my personal rig I am looking to replace my KF650z with two SH96HO.

While I am at it, I'm looking at going with some different subs. Currently I have 4 TH118.

Having heard most of the Danley lineup, I have come to the conclusion that I prefer traditional folded horns rather than the tapped horns. Like has been said in other discussions, I believe my subjective opinion comes from the better transient response, impact, blah blah blah.

The obvious choice here seems the be the BC415. However, I like the form factor of the DBH218LC better in a one per side configuration (Don't really need the extra extension, just the form factor). When stood on end it would provide a nice stand for the SH96 and match the 45" width, while still being a fairly compact setup.

Now, it seems like the BC415 should have considerably more output based on it being the holy grail and all. Also, in Danley Direct, there is no comparison between the two. However, in comparing sensitivities (extrapolating from the dbh218 spec sheet) the equalized sensitivities should be fairly close when accounting for the lower impedance of the BC415. The BC415 should have 3dbish more output potential due to twice as many drivers with the same power rating. (In either case, each driver would likely get a channel of powersoft x series)

I could just get 4 more Th118s. I'm fairly convinced that this would provide more output where I need it, but at a greater expense, more weight, more boxes to move, and doesn't get me the FLH I want. However, they could be stacked to be 45" wide and 80" tall.

 I could sell my Th118s and offset nearly all  of the cost of 2xDBH218LC and a lot of 2xBC415.

I don't know what I want to do.

I think next week I'll get the chance to demo 2xth118 vs 1xdbh218. That will help. Is it safe to assume that the dbh218lc doesn't give up any sensitivity for its extension, as compared to the standard dbh218?

Thoughts, input, blows to the head?

How on earth do you plan on dealing with BC-415s? 

Two can easily stack KF-650z, SH-96HO would kick two guys' asses, if it could even be done.

If you want to stay with DSL, SH-46 stacked on TH-118 makes a ton on sense to me.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 01:52:51 pm »

A lot of it comes down to the size/type jobs you do.

For some people the BC415 (or the new BC218) is no big deal to move around (considering you need less of them to do the job).

But if you ever have to go up steps-then you will hate them.

The DBH218 is easier to move than the BC415-but still an issue when it comes to moving into some venues.

The Th118 is very scaleable-so you can simply add more or less of them as needed.

One interesting thing I did awhile back. A group of us were comparing different subs-especially on the "impact" perspective.

We all agreed as to which subs had more impact-using a 80Hz low pass filter.

So we tried 2 experiments (I want to do this again some day when I have more time and it is not at the end of a long day).

They were based on the same idea-but 2 different approaches.

We looked at the freq response of each sub and adjusted it to match the others.

The 1st experiment was to boost the top end of the cabinets to match the one with the greatest output in the upper end of the response.

The 2nd experiment was to cut the cabinets to match the response with the lowest output in the upper end.

What we found out (again this was a quick test-so I am not holding this as fact), was that if you boosted the top end, you could not match the "sound" of the more impactfull cabinets.

However if you cut the top end you could get really close to the sound of the less impactful cabinets-so much as to make them sound pretty much the same.

So if you were actually doing a system alignment-you would end up cutting the top end (or reducing the crossover point) to match up with the mids-so the particular cabinet choice would not make a difference.

But if all you did was chose a crossover point (freq response be damned), then some cabinets will have a greater impact.  But make the response the same and that "edge" goes away.

So my conclusion was that the "punch" or impact was largely due to the response being louder up high-but not something that could be made up with eq.

So it depends on what you are looking for-accuracy or fun.

Sometimes they are very different things-just to make it harder to make a choice.
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Brandon Wright

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Re: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 02:32:29 pm »

How on earth do you plan on dealing with BC-415s? 

Two can easily stack KF-650z, SH-96HO would kick two guys' asses, if it could even be done.

If you want to stay with DSL, SH-46 stacked on TH-118 makes a ton on sense to me.

Everything that I would use these for I can just roll into, so pushing one thing is often easier then many smaller things.

I'm not worried about the weight of the SH96HO, it is still lighter than an 850. I don't stack 850s all that often anymore, but usually a couple times a year and often with just two people.

Heck something else I thought about was using a short piece of truss as a riser and bolting the the whole assembly (96+truss+dbh218lc) together on the floor, then standing it up.

I like the one box solution opposed to two sh46. Plus, I intend on quad amping the 96 and developing my own settings (mostly as a learning experience for IIR, FIR, Limiting, etc......) This will be a bit easier to achieve with one box instead of two and is closer to the "ideal" solution.

The nice thing about my personal gear is it doesn't have to earn me any money (most of the time it does, but it doesn't have to). It is a hobby and as long as it pays for itself that is all that matters. It is more about the process and furthering my understanding than anything. 

Ivan,

Can you comment at all on the sensitivity of the LC as compared to the normal dbh218, or as compared to the BC415/218.

The "numbers" suggest a 3db difference between the DBH218 and the BC415 when both are EQ'd reasonably flat, whereas Danley Direct shows 8-9 db difference below 50hz. Or if my thinking is flawed, let me know.

Thanks,
Brandon
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Art Welter

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Re: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 03:31:43 pm »

Can you comment at all on the sensitivity of the LC as compared to the normal dbh218, or as compared to the BC415/218.

The "numbers" suggest a 3db difference between the DBH218 and the BC415 when both are EQ'd reasonably flat, whereas Danley Direct shows 8-9 db difference below 50hz.
Brandon,

The spec sheet shows the BC415 to be slightly more sensitive (if you want to call it 3 dB I would not quibble) than the DBH218, but the BC415 appears to be tested using 28.3 volts in to a 2x2 ohm(one ohm) nominal load, while the DBH218 is a 2x4 ohm (nominal 2 ohm load.

Considering the impedance difference, the sensitivity appears nearly identical through most of the pass band. The "taller" vertical axis on the BC415 makes it appear more peaky, but a close look at the numbers show little difference below 100 Hz. The smaller box DBH218 appears to have almost identical output to the larger BC415 using half the power.

Although I don't recall any actual figures on the LC, by virtue of the larger cabinet, the longer path length resulting in a lower F3 should not result in lesser sensitivity.

If Danley Direct shows 8-9 db difference below 50 Hz, it does not agree with the spec sheets below.

Art
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Rob Spence

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Re: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 07:01:16 pm »

Brandon, are you replacing 650s or 850s? You have referred to both.


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Brandon Wright

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Re: New sub purchase/ Danley Sub Comparisons
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 09:53:22 pm »

Brandon,

The spec sheet shows the BC415 to be slightly more sensitive (if you want to call it 3 dB I would not quibble) than the DBH218, but the BC415 appears to be tested using 28.3 volts in to a 2x2 ohm(one ohm) nominal load, while the DBH218 is a 2x4 ohm (nominal 2 ohm load.

Considering the impedance difference, the sensitivity appears nearly identical through most of the pass band. The "taller" vertical axis on the BC415 makes it appear more peaky, but a close look at the numbers show little difference below 100 Hz. The smaller box DBH218 appears to have almost identical output to the larger BC415 using half the power.

Although I don't recall any actual figures on the LC, by virtue of the larger cabinet, the longer path length resulting in a lower F3 should not result in lesser sensitivity.

If Danley Direct shows 8-9 db difference below 50 Hz, it does not agree with the spec sheets below.

Art

Thanks  Art. Your assessment seems in line with mine. The 3db difference I was talking about was in regards to max output, due to twice the power handling of the bc415.

Rob, these will be replacing 650s.
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