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[Steve M Smith]

Are we experiencing a new era that is the opposite of "lead kick drum"

Is that where an engineer is showing off his systems power by making your clothing flap in time with the music instead of showing off its potential to amplify music properly?


Steve.

[Scott Holtzman]

Is that where an engineer is showing off his systems power by making your clothing flap in time with the music instead of showing off its potential to amplify music properly?


Steve.

For Pop and Metal today it seems that kidney stone shattering LF is considered good sound.  There is humor value in an electronic drum not that you can reproduce at an insane level but to me that is not music, it's an effect, almost like in a movie.  Music has harmony.   

The bottom line is we are hired help, if the engineer has a bass fetish and is indulging it that's one thing.  If the client wants that type of effect it is our job to produce it and charge them for the equipment necessary to reproduce it.  It's not about what we like, or want to listen to.  Even Pop Country to me has exaggerated low frequency and some of the Christian acts are the worst offenders.

Fascinating discussion.  BTW I am 50 and I think that is relevant to the conversation regarding "proper" LF (which the drummer is a large part of) placement in the  mix.

[Steve M Smith]

BTW I am 50 and I think that is relevant to the conversation regarding "proper" LF (which the drummer is a large part of) placement in the  mix.

I am also 50 (or I will be in a couple of months).  I think in a lot of cases our ages show in our responses and preferences.


Steve.

[Alex Rigodanzo]

I'm also over 50 and I like the kick to feel like getting hit in the chest with a baseball bat. If someone is playing live drums in your living room, that's what the kick feels like. I go to see live music to experience the impact you just cannot get on the "radio". Rhythm is what gets people moving and the rhythm section is bass and drums.

[Steve M Smith]

I go to see live music to experience the impact you just cannot get on the "radio".

I agree but I also want it to sound like a drum, not a dull thud.


Steve.

[Scott Holtzman]

I agree but I also want it to sound like a drum, not a dull thud.


Steve.

If I had the hardest hitting drum player in my living room, even with a double base, I would feel impact, and it would be percussive and if the drummer tuned his drums hopefully musical.  We are far beyond simply reproducing the instrument.  I think the effect is more akin to using our bodies as the outside drum head. 

I am at a loss to find the words for what I am trying to describe.

[Steve M Smith]

I am at a loss to find the words for what I am trying to describe.

I think I know what you mean.  My comment was really based on seeing what was, in 1994, a current chart band, where the sound of the kick drum was unpleasant, as was the feeling you got from it.

I came away from the show with the impression that the engineer was just trying to show off the power of his subs rather than using them musically.


Steve.

[John Chiara]

I think everyone should get their butts in the studio and learn how to mix music. Almost all live mixers I meet have zero studio experience and it shows. Mixing music like learning an instrument. You need to practice in a situation where you can stop and figure things out. How would the bands sound if the musicians only played their instruments on stage? I can teach a live sound mixer...who actually wants to mix...more in an afternoon in the studio than they would learn in years of doing 'combat audio' where you can't compare results. Managing low end takes practice and an understanding of many variables that need practice to understand. Having a reference is THE most important thing..IMO.

[Patrick Tracy]

I'm also over 50 and I like the kick to feel like getting hit in the chest with a baseball bat. If someone is playing live drums in your living room, that's what the kick feels like.

Sometimes, sometimes not. It depends on the player and the style. A jazz drummer will sound different from a rock drummer and I'd mix them accordingly.

[kel mcguire]

  It's somewhat of a curse to be in the mixing business when attending events. Like mentioned above, you have to find some things to enjoy about an act, mix or event sound. The bottom line? It really doesn't matter as much as we think if the mix is off a bit. Sure, grossly whacked out, feedback, super harsh... OK< low tolerance. "No drums" worth a rant?

We're sitting ducks at most events for anyone to voice their opinion, and people do. Soundmen do too. Sometimes it's obvious when someone wanders up to your FOH position with the subtle "hey man, hows it going, I mix for my church... I think you need a little more/less ____" .

In what other line of work is it OK to voice your opinion about someone else's performance? We're like Umpires, when it goes well, we don't get credit, if something is perceived wrong, we hear about it!

You know what the easiest thing to do is? To wander into someone else's event/mix and pick out what's "wrong".  You're not invested in any of the work or challenges involved in the particular event. You've instantly discounted or overlooked the countless other aspects that go into a show, a mix... not even aware of other factors that may have contributed to what you perceive as incompetence or mistakes. The same challenges we face at our events.  A number of things contribute to why a show sounds like it does, no? If I've learned anything from mixing a zillion shows for 30+ years, it is to be a little more empathetic about what may be contributing to my perception of something out of whack.

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