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Author Topic: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary  (Read 6918 times)

Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2014, 04:32:48 pm »

I think it all depends on circumstances and skill levels.  I would never split the wiring and termination out from the rest of an installed system for example, I would take the entire installed system, pulled wiring, dsp, amps, speakers, and treat it as a unit, with a console, mics, wireless, stands, monitor wedges, playback as being fixtures, furniture, and equipment not part of the installed system.  Sometimes this makes sense.  However, if my system stops working, I can troubleshoot and isolate the problem before calling the contractor IF we are within the warranty period.  Not everyone has staff available who can do that.  Your mileage may vary.

This ^^^^. I will not be "helping" anyone install the system. I am installing the system. The electricians will provide power (you would most likely have one subcontracted on a install if power was need unless you have a licensed electrician on staff), the contractor will provide any structural changes needed that will be provided by the engineer (again most likely sub-contractors in most projects), I will be rigging, and wiring the system. I will do everything up to the point of having it running. I am quite capable in rigging, wiring, soldering, termination, testing, troubleshooting, etc. My job requires me to have these skills and to be good at them. I understand signal flow. I can even EQ a system to a point that the tools I have on hand allow. I understand the aspects of a sound reinforcement system.

I was originally looking for just some recommends for a room. Not everyone who posts something here about a self install is an average Joe. I know DIY is a big trend right now and people do some crazy things. Trust me I have seen it first hand in my line of work. I have cleaned up a lot of it.

To answer Ivan's remarks I will be the contact for all equipment provided and installed. Out side of the electrician, contractor, and the structural engineer there want be any other contacts.

Tom. I am sorry for the confusion. My terminology was off. I just got back from a week of youth camp. I might have had 14 hours of sleep the last 7 days on top of a 8 hour trip one way. Maybe that is why I am so cranky. I do mean a system alignment and optimization. I have talked to some of my contacts to day and a gentleman I have worked with in the past is coming by to talk with me next week. He does acoustic optimization.

Thankfully we don't have any lavs, head-worn, or podium mics. Our pastor is old school and likes a mic in hand. I am currently using a Beta 87c. It has a pattern with some side rejection of signal. It is nice and clear. He sings along with preaching. So it works all around as a great mic for the purpose. Nice and clear, cuts through the mix during worship service (he leads our worship service) and sounds great.

We are looking at some acoustical treatment for the room as another project but thankfully our room is not too bad. A little echo but not terrible. It is something I want to have done but depending on budget we might end up putting it off.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 11:22:31 pm »

This ^^^^. I will not be "helping" anyone install the system. I am installing the system. The electricians will provide power (you would most likely have one subcontracted on a install if power was need unless you have a licensed electrician on staff), the contractor will provide any structural changes needed that will be provided by the engineer (again most likely sub-contractors in most projects), I will be rigging, and wiring the system. I will do everything up to the point of having it running. I am quite capable in rigging, wiring, soldering, termination, testing, troubleshooting, etc. My job requires me to have these skills and to be good at them. I understand signal flow. I can even EQ a system to a point that the tools I have on hand allow. I understand the aspects of a sound reinforcement system.

I was originally looking for just some recommends for a room. Not everyone who posts something here about a self install is an average Joe. I know DIY is a big trend right now and people do some crazy things. Trust me I have seen it first hand in my line of work. I have cleaned up a lot of it.

To answer Ivan's remarks I will be the contact for all equipment provided and installed. Out side of the electrician, contractor, and the structural engineer there want be any other contacts.

Tom. I am sorry for the confusion. My terminology was off. I just got back from a week of youth camp. I might have had 14 hours of sleep the last 7 days on top of a 8 hour trip one way. Maybe that is why I am so cranky. I do mean a system alignment and optimization. I have talked to some of my contacts to day and a gentleman I have worked with in the past is coming by to talk with me next week. He does acoustic optimization.

Thankfully we don't have any lavs, head-worn, or podium mics. Our pastor is old school and likes a mic in hand. I am currently using a Beta 87c. It has a pattern with some side rejection of signal. It is nice and clear. He sings along with preaching. So it works all around as a great mic for the purpose. Nice and clear, cuts through the mix during worship service (he leads our worship service) and sounds great.

We are looking at some acoustical treatment for the room as another project but thankfully our room is not too bad. A little echo but not terrible. It is something I want to have done but depending on budget we might end up putting it off.

So if you are qualified to the design what are you looking for from the community?  In any technical field we see this every day, folks get to the limit of their skills and they want a tech to helicopter in, sprinkle some holy water and make it work.  Often it is easier to simply start the job all over that to figure out someone elses work or try to salvage a half finished botched job.  Funny thing is I am talking about my day hat, IT.  Take out speakers and mixers and put in servers and routers and the discussion on the IT forums is the same.

Unless you do it every day for a living and are immersed in the technology you can't be as proficient as a professional.  You may be God's gift to the electron, have a masters of science in EE but that makes you smart and means you can wade deeper before making a huge and expensive mistake.

Be a good steward of the Churches resources and do it right and once.  Then you will be the real hero.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2014, 11:38:14 am »

Never mind...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 11:44:38 am by Tim McCulloch »
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Thomas Lamb

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 12:00:48 pm »

Thanks for your reply. As listed in my first post it is a total replacement. With a budget range of 40K - 50K. Mics (including wireless) are 8K. Mixer is 18K for A&H GLD (System Desired) leaving 14K to 24K for Mains and Monitors. Monitors are at 4K (I didn't list this). Which brings us down to 10K to 20K for mains. Now that being said I am willing to realign if I need more budget for mains. I can always add digital snakes, personal monitors, and fluff (extra) mics later. These calculations for mixer and mics are what I want. If I need to cut back on mic cost in order to hang better mains I am open to that.

Gosh, I guess I didn't intend on getting a lecture on budgetary concerns. I have done the necessary calculations to get into a range of products. Things are still very much in the preliminary planning stages. We have a budget goal and I just wanted some recommendations to fit in that range. Main speakers are my main concern. Followed by mixer, then mics, monitors, and such.


If your paying 18K for a GLD ill sell it to you fly in install and train for that.... Anywho Ivan and Tom are 2 of the smartest dudes on here! I f they ask questions its because they like myself are tired of fixing poorly installed systems. Especially at churches! Tired of seeing churches overspend and get nothing for it. Tired of seeing churches do it over and over again. And they actually care! They ask about budget number and many things because MOST people don't really have a full plan. Good luck.
T
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bigTlamb

"If you suck on a functional analog desk, you'll really suck on a complex digital desk...." Dick Rees

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 12:00:48 pm »


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