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Author Topic: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary  (Read 7075 times)

Nate Lewis

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Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« on: July 15, 2014, 11:48:46 am »

We are in need of an A/V upgrade. We had a lighting strike bring down one phase of our three phase system. This happened to be the phase that our Audio System was on. We are having some unexplainable happens with our current audio system and our insurance has been gracious enough to pay for a entire replacement system. I need everything as nothing can be trusted to preform properly from the old system.

What I am looking for recommendations for is main speaker options. I have done some testing in EASE Focus and looked at a couple of different systems. One of my contacts is pushing toward the NEXO PS15-R2 2-way speakers. I have not run an EASE Focus sim on these as they don't have a Focus file that I can find.

One of the contractors we have pinged for a quote is recommending a DAS array but I don't have his quote in hand so I am not entirely sure which one. I suspect it is the Event series as that probably fits our price range.

I have looked at DB Technologies T4. These seem to fit the room okay. I am worried that 2 arrays will be too wide at 100 degrees of spread.

I have attached some pics and a simple layout with dimensions.

Budget is 40K to 50K total. I will have to buy some mics. I have set aside about 8K to flesh out a nice mic locker. I am willing to pull resources to use on speakers if necessary.

Other notes:

We are moving to IEM's for the drummer, bass, and sax. That is three wedges down. There will be six QSC K-8 (2 for pulpit, 1 for each [piano, organ, lead singing podium, guitar]) replacing the 12" and 15" wedges now cutting down on some stage volume. I want to do all of them except the pulpit and the lead singer but we have special situations for the piano and organ (read: lots of guest, most of whom would not wear headphones). The organ will probably run hybrid with my main organ player doing IEMs with the floor wedge signal down and guest using the floor wedge. Piano will probably be the same. Guitar will be floor wedge.

I am looking at mixing options. Right now I am leaning toward the A&H GLD-80/112 depending on budget. If budget is restricted my backup plan is an X32 or M32. To go A&H with digital snakes, dante card, ME-1 personal monitor system will run about 18K. This is probably too much so more than likely I will be going the X32 or M32 route.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 12:36:03 pm »

In looking at the room-I would go with a well behaved center speaker (and maybe some small fills for the seats down front left and right).

Anything else is going to look bad and take away from the look of the room.

When you specified budget-what all does it have to include?  Is there a new console?  What about wireless mics?

What you need to do is to take the total available-subtract out the "knowns" (console wireless-playback etc) and see what is left over.

THAT is what you have to spend on a loudspeaker system and amps/processing etc
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Ivan Beaver
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 01:49:41 pm »

Thanks for your reply. As listed in my first post it is a total replacement. With a budget range of 40K - 50K. Mics (including wireless) are 8K. Mixer is 18K for A&H GLD (System Desired) leaving 14K to 24K for Mains and Monitors. Monitors are at 4K (I didn't list this). Which brings us down to 10K to 20K for mains. Now that being said I am willing to realign if I need more budget for mains. I can always add digital snakes, personal monitors, and fluff (extra) mics later. These calculations for mixer and mics are what I want. If I need to cut back on mic cost in order to hang better mains I am open to that.

Gosh, I guess I didn't intend on getting a lecture on budgetary concerns. I have done the necessary calculations to get into a range of products. Things are still very much in the preliminary planning stages. We have a budget goal and I just wanted some recommendations to fit in that range. Main speakers are my main concern. Followed by mixer, then mics, monitors, and such.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 02:10:40 pm »

You aren't getting a lecture, don't construe it that way.  There is no use for anyone to suggest 20k of speakers if you only have 10k left.  Detailing your budget is helpful and something many people haven't thought of beyond the big number.

Does your budget include installation?  Someone has to hang the speakers, and to do it right you will need a structural engineer to provide a stamped drawing (perhaps a congregant is a structural engineer).  If you need amps for your speakers, do you have conduit from the amp location to where you need it?  Is there sufficient power?  All these questions and more matter and factor into the budget.

I agree with Ivan's recommendation for a center cluster.  Perhaps you could contact Danley and ask them to do a model for you and make a reccomendation.

What volume do expect in dB from the system?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 03:20:24 pm »

Forgive me, I am new here. After reading his post it seemed to me he did not read my post in it's entirety. Several questions he mentioned had been answered but possibly not thoroughly enough. But alas all that aside I am here for some of your thoughts.

All labor will be handled professionally. We have several contractors (licensed) and electricians (licensed) in the congregation to help. They will be donating their labor in order to make more room in the budget for equipment. This has already be set in place. I have a structural engineer in the family who will be working up the plans for flying the speakers what ever they may be. I will be taking care of his labor personally. The only cost will be the equipment. I run cabling professionally and will be running any signal cables that may be needed. Conduit is in place.

For ease of use we can go middle ground and say there is 15K of budget room for main speakers.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 07:03:20 pm »

Forgive me, I am new here. After reading his post it seemed to me he did not read my post in it's entirety. Several questions he mentioned had been answered but possibly not thoroughly enough. But alas all that aside I am here for some of your thoughts.


I am not sure what part I missed.  You mentioned a budget and all you talked about were the speakers. 

I did not see any mention about other expenses.

We have people all the time that mention a budget-and when they start to figure things out and costs-there is not as much left as they suspect they had.

Just for example you say you have 15K for speakers.  What about amps-processing-cables (both speaker and flyware etc).

YOU may know what you have in mind-but we (the people reading) do not. THAT is why it has to be spelled out.

Sorry-but details ARE important.

Just for example.  You say you are going to do the labor. How do you plan on lifting the speakers into place and do the rigging?

Do you have scaffolding? or a lift that is being donated?  That can add to the costs.
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 12:09:00 pm »

I will just keep this simple. 15k for speakers, processing and amp if passive, and flyware. I have access to scaffolding. The church owns a lift. Wiring is already considered in another part of the budget and we have some bulk on hand.

I didn't post every detail of the budget because quite frankly it is not important to the matter. A public fourm is not the place I would want to post finical matters of a group of individuals operating as a church body. I was asking about mains not about budgeting. A simple question of "does this range include flyware, amps, etc. would have sufficed". I can understand that some people don't know how to manage a project. I do not feel this is the place to get into that.

To be completely honest I am interested to see what mains would fit the room best. Our final budget numbers are not set and they could go up if we decide to to. I just needed some recommendations on speakers that would fit the room.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2014, 12:24:35 pm »

To be completely honest I am interested to see what mains would fit the room best. Our final budget numbers are not set and they could go up if we decide to to. I just needed some recommendations on speakers that would fit the room.

To be honest, you can't make decisions on such matters on internet forums.

There are too many variables as well as the personal equation of group decision making which require on-site, real-time communication.

As often happens, it would seem your quest is one of validation of an idea, not so much one seeking real information.  Parsing out the requested info and quibbling with requsts to discuss matters relative to the issue really get you nowhere...fast.

To be honest...
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Tom Young

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2014, 12:31:57 pm »

DAS are not in the same quality category as Nexo and I would avoid them.

Nexo may be a good fit. Others I would look to are: Danley Sound Labs, Yamaha Commercial series, Fulcrum Acoustic and d&b Audiotechnik. There are others, but these would provide plenty of options and probably fit your budget.

You have not mentioned subwoofers. While it would seem (to me ) that these would be necessary given the style of music you appear to worship with, finding a good place for them (or maybe only one would be required) is another challenge. Placement is pretty critical but for different reasons than those which occur in placement of the fullrange loudspeakers.

Perhaps the strongest suggestion/warning I can give you is that it matters little what system you go with if you do not have a experienced measurement & optimization specialist on board. The loudspeakers will simply not perform as well as they are designed to without this. Part of this is making sure you have an appropriate DSP device and appropriate power amplifiers in the system.

HTH
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 12:38:41 pm »

I will just keep this simple. 15k for speakers, processing and amp if passive, and flyware. I have access to scaffolding. The church owns a lift. Wiring is already considered in another part of the budget and we have some bulk on hand.

I didn't post every detail of the budget because quite frankly it is not important to the matter. A public fourm is not the place I would want to post finical matters of a group of individuals operating as a church body. I was asking about mains not about budgeting. A simple question of "does this range include flyware, amps, etc. would have sufficed". I can understand that some people don't know how to manage a project. I do not feel this is the place to get into that.

To be completely honest I am interested to see what mains would fit the room best. Our final budget numbers are not set and they could go up if we decide to to. I just needed some recommendations on speakers that would fit the room.
1: You started with a number of 40-50K and now we are down to 15K.

2: You say you "looked" at the different system in EASE focus.

What all did you consider when looking at them?  There is a lot of information available-but very often people only look at a "simple number" and that gives a very bad wrong impression of what the system is actually doing in a given space.

Do you have any of the results you would like to share?  Or evaluate?  Just to double check that things are "right"

I have seen a model by probably the largest most respected manufacturer out there-in a really nice presentation package-but yet the results they showed had the loudspeakers mounted FIFTEEN FEET ABOVE the ceiling of the building.  And the results were not very good even with that height-but we won't go there-----

In doing a good design-you often have to look a bit deeper to get the real answers.

Are you open to other ideas or are they limited to the ones you listed?

I am not trying to be mean-but rather to simply point out things that most people overlook.

In many cases the "particulars" of an install often end up quite higher than expected.  With your original post we had no idea of what was available-who was donating what and so forth.

You have given no idea (that I remember) on the musical style or SPL that you are looking for.

Are you looking for hard pounding kick drum (if so-does the budget include subs as well?) or is this more of a "general sound" with light music?

The size (not the coverage) of the system is very different in those cases.
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 01:07:31 pm »

DAS are not in the same quality category as Nexo and I would avoid them.

Nexo may be a good fit. Others I would look to are: Danley Sound Labs, Yamaha Commercial series, Fulcrum Acoustic and d&b Audiotechnik. There are others, but these would provide plenty of options and probably fit your budget.

You have not mentioned subwoofers. While it would seem (to me ) that these would be necessary given the style of music you appear to worship with, finding a good place for them (or maybe only one would be required) is another challenge. Placement is pretty critical but for different reasons than those which occur in placement of the fullrange loudspeakers.

Perhaps the strongest suggestion/warning I can give you is that it matters little what system you go with if you do not have a experienced measurement & optimization specialist on board. The loudspeakers will simply not perform as well as they are designed to without this. Part of this is making sure you have an appropriate DSP device and appropriate power amplifiers in the system.

HTH

We are currently using two 18" JBL subs. One is far left and the other far right against the wall right in front of the platform. You can see the JBL tag in the pic taken from the corner. I am not responsible for the install of the current system. This placements seems to work well. I have not experimented with other placements due to aesthetics. We will need a sub or subs for our style of music.

We tend to run loud and hard. Currently we sometimes hit up to 95db for our worship service with an average around 90db. Our goal is always 88 to 90 db.

Tom do you have a contact for a measurement & optimization specialist I could contact in our area. Most of the audio contracters around here either just install what they think will work or have a "guy" they call. Most are stuck to one or two brands which can be good and bad. In this case this is a DAS guy.
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Tom Young

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 02:24:56 pm »

Tom do you have a contact for a measurement & optimization specialist I could contact in our area. Most of the audio contracters around here either just install what they think will work or have a "guy" they call. Most are stuck to one or two brands which can be good and bad. In this case this is a DAS guy.

I did not see any reference to where you are located. Let me know and I will try to help.
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 03:35:18 pm »

I did not see any reference to where you are located. Let me know and I will try to help.

Sorry. We are in central Mississippi.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2014, 07:03:53 pm »

Most of the audio contracters around here either just install what they think will work or have a "guy" they call. Most are stuck to one or two brands which can be good and bad. In this case this is a DAS guy.
I thought YOU were doing the install?
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2014, 08:02:30 pm »

I thought YOU were doing the install?

I plan to do the install. That is not to say I will not bring in the help of someone with more equipment and experience to tell me the best way to position and where to install to get the best out of what we have. Like I said earlier we are in the very begging stages and I was just looking for some quick recommends of something I may not have seen before as ideas. Paying some one $100 an hour for back work that I can do is different than paying an expert for a small amount of time to analyze the room.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 08:48:01 pm »

I plan to do the install. That is not to say I will not bring in the help of someone with more equipment and experience to tell me the best way to position and where to install to get the best out of what we have. Like I said earlier we are in the very begging stages and I was just looking for some quick recommends of something I may not have seen before as ideas. Paying some one $100 an hour for back work that I can do is different than paying an expert for a small amount of time to analyze the room.
The modeling program should tell you where to position and aim the loudspeakers.  The model shows the results of the choice of position and loudspeaker.  But then you have already looked into that-so should have the answers already.

I would not consider any product unless you have ALSO checked into where they could be placed.  it might be the proper location would require LOTS of extra money.

We did a job a few years ago in which the location for the system I wanted to install could be hung off of the main structure steel.  However the consultant on the job wanted to use a different solution-and it cost the Church over $50,000 JUST to have steel installed to hang the cluster where he wanted it.

Things like that need to be planned on.

As for me-I would not want to be involved in a project in which products other than what I recommend were used-and then the results would be my responsibility.  In the previous example the consultant was responsible-and the results were not good-but that fell on him-not us.

Analyzing the room is pretty much a completely different issue than doing system alignment.  Different skill sets/different knowledge basis/different solutions.

What are the problems you are having with the room?

So does the acoustic treatment needed for the room going to come out of the $15K budget? Or is there a separate budget for that?
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Tom Young

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2014, 09:18:47 pm »

Paying some one $100 an hour for back work that I can do is different than paying an expert for a small amount of time to analyze the room.

Not to nitpick, but I specifically meant (and within the context of my post, "said") you need to have the sound system measured and optimized. This will certainly include the room and acoustics, but should not be misrepresented as "analyze the room".

You should also expect to pay "good money" and partly because it won't be a small amount of time, if it is done correctly. Measuring and optimizing the system is the first step. Then you bring in the players and clergy and sound check. The remaining stage monitors you are using should be measured and optimized. This will help you to achieve lower levels. Difficult microphones (lav's and earworn wireless, podium) should be analyzed while the users are wearing them and speaking through them. Precision EQ, based on high-resolution measurement, is usually required on these. I, more often than not, also attend 1-3 services so that the presence of the congregation (their effects on acoustics and how the musos and clergy behave with them present) can be accounted for.

The specialist will have thousands of dollars worth of gear and software plus the training they received and years of practice. So the tab may end up costing a few thousand dollars. But this is such a vital step and will effect so much how the tens of thousand of dollars of gear works, it is money very well spent.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 07:35:02 am »

Not to nitpick, but I specifically meant (and within the context of my post, "said") you need to have the sound system measured and optimized. This will certainly include the room and acoustics, but should not be misrepresented as "analyze the room".

You should also expect to pay "good money" and partly because it won't be a small amount of time, if it is done correctly. Measuring and optimizing the system is the first step. Then you bring in the players and clergy and sound check. The remaining stage monitors you are using should be measured and optimized. This will help you to achieve lower levels. Difficult microphones (lav's and earworn wireless, podium) should be analyzed while the users are wearing them and speaking through them. Precision EQ, based on high-resolution measurement, is usually required on these. I, more often than not, also attend 1-3 services so that the presence of the congregation (their effects on acoustics and how the musos and clergy behave with them present) can be accounted for.

The specialist will have thousands of dollars worth of gear and software plus the training they received and years of practice. So the tab may end up costing a few thousand dollars. But this is such a vital step and will effect so much how the tens of thousand of dollars of gear works, it is money very well spent.
Do you mean I can't just put the RTA in AUTO mode and "eq the room" in 5 minutes????????????????

The manual say I can-----------------------  ;)

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2014, 07:44:54 am »

I plan to do the install. That is not to say I will not bring in the help of someone with more equipment and experience to tell me the best way to position and where to install to get the best out of what we have. Like I said earlier we are in the very begging stages and I was just looking for some quick recommends of something I may not have seen before as ideas. Paying some one $100 an hour for back work that I can do is different than paying an expert for a small amount of time to analyze the room.
When I was in the install business (installed probably 500 systems or so), we would NEVER let the buyer/owner etc do or help with the install.

There is simply to much risk of liability-on different levels- there.

The obvious being physical (building and bodily).

But what happens and who is responsible when something stops working?  Is the failure due to a bad solder connection that the volunteer did?  Or the crimp connection that the pro did?

What if it is a piece of gear?  Who is going to figure that out and warranty that?

Is the "bad sound" the fault of the person who did the alignment (whith what he was given to work with) or the result of a bad choice of gear by the owner?

It is FAR better to have ONE COMPANY responsible for the entire system-that way the liability falls on them.  When you start to "mix it up" it gets real confusing and there is lots of "finger pointing".

We had a case recently in which one company supplied the mixer and another company supplied the DSP/amp/speaker system.

The system stopped working-os "OBVIOUSLY" it must be the fault of the seakers-because there  is no sound coming out-right???????

Long story short-the output of the console died-but yet the company that did the speaker install was the one who sent people to figure out the problem and prove it was not their fault.

Yes the console got fixed by the other companies warrant-but the company that did the speaker install (who sent manpower-knowledge etc to the jobsite) did not get paid for their effort/time to figure out it was somebodies elses problem.

That is exactly the type of thing where it get "confusing".

Sorry-but that is the REALITY of what goes on in this business.

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2014, 08:39:55 am »

I think it all depends on circumstances and skill levels.  I would never split the wiring and termination out from the rest of an installed system for example, I would take the entire installed system, pulled wiring, dsp, amps, speakers, and treat it as a unit, with a console, mics, wireless, stands, monitor wedges, playback as being fixtures, furniture, and equipment not part of the installed system.  Sometimes this makes sense.  However, if my system stops working, I can troubleshoot and isolate the problem before calling the contractor IF we are within the warranty period.  Not everyone has staff available who can do that.  Your mileage may vary.
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Nate Lewis

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2014, 04:32:48 pm »

I think it all depends on circumstances and skill levels.  I would never split the wiring and termination out from the rest of an installed system for example, I would take the entire installed system, pulled wiring, dsp, amps, speakers, and treat it as a unit, with a console, mics, wireless, stands, monitor wedges, playback as being fixtures, furniture, and equipment not part of the installed system.  Sometimes this makes sense.  However, if my system stops working, I can troubleshoot and isolate the problem before calling the contractor IF we are within the warranty period.  Not everyone has staff available who can do that.  Your mileage may vary.

This ^^^^. I will not be "helping" anyone install the system. I am installing the system. The electricians will provide power (you would most likely have one subcontracted on a install if power was need unless you have a licensed electrician on staff), the contractor will provide any structural changes needed that will be provided by the engineer (again most likely sub-contractors in most projects), I will be rigging, and wiring the system. I will do everything up to the point of having it running. I am quite capable in rigging, wiring, soldering, termination, testing, troubleshooting, etc. My job requires me to have these skills and to be good at them. I understand signal flow. I can even EQ a system to a point that the tools I have on hand allow. I understand the aspects of a sound reinforcement system.

I was originally looking for just some recommends for a room. Not everyone who posts something here about a self install is an average Joe. I know DIY is a big trend right now and people do some crazy things. Trust me I have seen it first hand in my line of work. I have cleaned up a lot of it.

To answer Ivan's remarks I will be the contact for all equipment provided and installed. Out side of the electrician, contractor, and the structural engineer there want be any other contacts.

Tom. I am sorry for the confusion. My terminology was off. I just got back from a week of youth camp. I might have had 14 hours of sleep the last 7 days on top of a 8 hour trip one way. Maybe that is why I am so cranky. I do mean a system alignment and optimization. I have talked to some of my contacts to day and a gentleman I have worked with in the past is coming by to talk with me next week. He does acoustic optimization.

Thankfully we don't have any lavs, head-worn, or podium mics. Our pastor is old school and likes a mic in hand. I am currently using a Beta 87c. It has a pattern with some side rejection of signal. It is nice and clear. He sings along with preaching. So it works all around as a great mic for the purpose. Nice and clear, cuts through the mix during worship service (he leads our worship service) and sounds great.

We are looking at some acoustical treatment for the room as another project but thankfully our room is not too bad. A little echo but not terrible. It is something I want to have done but depending on budget we might end up putting it off.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 11:22:31 pm »

This ^^^^. I will not be "helping" anyone install the system. I am installing the system. The electricians will provide power (you would most likely have one subcontracted on a install if power was need unless you have a licensed electrician on staff), the contractor will provide any structural changes needed that will be provided by the engineer (again most likely sub-contractors in most projects), I will be rigging, and wiring the system. I will do everything up to the point of having it running. I am quite capable in rigging, wiring, soldering, termination, testing, troubleshooting, etc. My job requires me to have these skills and to be good at them. I understand signal flow. I can even EQ a system to a point that the tools I have on hand allow. I understand the aspects of a sound reinforcement system.

I was originally looking for just some recommends for a room. Not everyone who posts something here about a self install is an average Joe. I know DIY is a big trend right now and people do some crazy things. Trust me I have seen it first hand in my line of work. I have cleaned up a lot of it.

To answer Ivan's remarks I will be the contact for all equipment provided and installed. Out side of the electrician, contractor, and the structural engineer there want be any other contacts.

Tom. I am sorry for the confusion. My terminology was off. I just got back from a week of youth camp. I might have had 14 hours of sleep the last 7 days on top of a 8 hour trip one way. Maybe that is why I am so cranky. I do mean a system alignment and optimization. I have talked to some of my contacts to day and a gentleman I have worked with in the past is coming by to talk with me next week. He does acoustic optimization.

Thankfully we don't have any lavs, head-worn, or podium mics. Our pastor is old school and likes a mic in hand. I am currently using a Beta 87c. It has a pattern with some side rejection of signal. It is nice and clear. He sings along with preaching. So it works all around as a great mic for the purpose. Nice and clear, cuts through the mix during worship service (he leads our worship service) and sounds great.

We are looking at some acoustical treatment for the room as another project but thankfully our room is not too bad. A little echo but not terrible. It is something I want to have done but depending on budget we might end up putting it off.

So if you are qualified to the design what are you looking for from the community?  In any technical field we see this every day, folks get to the limit of their skills and they want a tech to helicopter in, sprinkle some holy water and make it work.  Often it is easier to simply start the job all over that to figure out someone elses work or try to salvage a half finished botched job.  Funny thing is I am talking about my day hat, IT.  Take out speakers and mixers and put in servers and routers and the discussion on the IT forums is the same.

Unless you do it every day for a living and are immersed in the technology you can't be as proficient as a professional.  You may be God's gift to the electron, have a masters of science in EE but that makes you smart and means you can wade deeper before making a huge and expensive mistake.

Be a good steward of the Churches resources and do it right and once.  Then you will be the real hero.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2014, 11:38:14 am »

Never mind...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 11:44:38 am by Tim McCulloch »
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Thomas Lamb

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 12:00:48 pm »

Thanks for your reply. As listed in my first post it is a total replacement. With a budget range of 40K - 50K. Mics (including wireless) are 8K. Mixer is 18K for A&H GLD (System Desired) leaving 14K to 24K for Mains and Monitors. Monitors are at 4K (I didn't list this). Which brings us down to 10K to 20K for mains. Now that being said I am willing to realign if I need more budget for mains. I can always add digital snakes, personal monitors, and fluff (extra) mics later. These calculations for mixer and mics are what I want. If I need to cut back on mic cost in order to hang better mains I am open to that.

Gosh, I guess I didn't intend on getting a lecture on budgetary concerns. I have done the necessary calculations to get into a range of products. Things are still very much in the preliminary planning stages. We have a budget goal and I just wanted some recommendations to fit in that range. Main speakers are my main concern. Followed by mixer, then mics, monitors, and such.


If your paying 18K for a GLD ill sell it to you fly in install and train for that.... Anywho Ivan and Tom are 2 of the smartest dudes on here! I f they ask questions its because they like myself are tired of fixing poorly installed systems. Especially at churches! Tired of seeing churches overspend and get nothing for it. Tired of seeing churches do it over and over again. And they actually care! They ask about budget number and many things because MOST people don't really have a full plan. Good luck.
T
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bigTlamb

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Re: Recommendation for Installed Sound in Church Sanctuary
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 12:00:48 pm »


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