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Author Topic: Paralleling Two Generators  (Read 13841 times)

Cailen Waddell

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Paralleling Two Generators
« on: June 29, 2014, 10:31:07 am »

I have been looking at Honda's newer EU7000i, and their parallel capability, as together, two could handle a couple of our larger outdoor gigs... 

As I was doing some googling, I came across this site, and wanted to ask everyone's thoughts,

The theory makes sense to me - but I wonder about applicability, we have about 15A of LED units, 4 Crown xti 6002, and then the console, various other miscellaneous stuff.... 

Thoughts?  Is it a way for people to waste money or a legit device?

http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/slg_home.html

Thanks
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 12:38:06 pm »

I have been looking at Honda's newer EU7000i, and their parallel capability, as together, two could handle a couple of our larger outdoor gigs... 

As I was doing some googling, I came across this site, and wanted to ask everyone's thoughts,

The theory makes sense to me - but I wonder about applicability, we have about 15A of LED units, 4 Crown xti 6002, and then the console, various other miscellaneous stuff.... 

Thoughts?  Is it a way for people to waste money or a legit device?

http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/slg_home.html

Thanks

It'll be less expensive (and give you more power for your money) to just buy a single diesel unit.  In addition you'll get:

1.  Warranty.  Modding the Hondas voids the warranty.

2.  Insurable.  Modded units may not be coverable in liability claims.

3.  More power, no phase issues and longer run time.

4.  No after-market kludges, no (well, fewer...) hassles with inspectors.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 01:33:34 pm »

Dick. Thanks for this...

I wasn't thinking of modding the Hondas, I was thinking of the honda bridge kit.  My question was more to - are these guys solving a legit problem or is this a solution with only a theoretical problem. 

Diesel is certainly an option, whatever we get goes through fleet, and gets a pm program.  We are local gov.

Correct about run time, etc

We are our own inspectors or at least the AHJ (which is us) leaves us alone.  We currently follow best practices with genny grounding, operation etc.


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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 02:29:11 pm »

I have been studying the whole line of Honda Inverter generators after seeing a set of them in action and being impressed.  I can't find any owner anywhere that isn't pleased with them. They run quiet.  They give good clean power.  Honda EU series AC power with a voltage stability within 1%, and frequency stability within 0.1 HZ. The end result is a nearly pure sine wave with a wave distortion of only 2.5%

They are easy to parallel with Honda equipment.  No mods, no kluge.  Extend run tanks are available that can be mounted in a safe place and connected to the generator without mods or kluge.

What I like is that each individual unit is lighter in weight and easier to manage, load, unload, then one big generator.

Frank
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frank kayser

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 04:31:13 pm »

the only argument I have is with your statement about a extended-run tank.


The gas cap on the 1000-2000 series requires modification (kludge) to make it work.


That same mod will not work with the 3000 series. 


Like an outboard motor, the 1000-2000 series employ a vaccuum-pulse fuel pump, where the 3000 is strictly gravity fed.  The 3000 can be retrofit with the fuel pump from the 2000 which will enable a safe extended-run tank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqJ41vhfR9w


The other option is to siphon feed the 3000 or gravity feed the existing tank on the 3000, but I'm not thrilled with that idea.


Hold the phone!  A new system I have not seen before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok2moAAttgM


frank
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2014, 04:49:17 pm »


Hold the phone!  A new system I have not seen before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok2moAAttgM

frank

Here is another.  No mods, and for God's sake, no Kludge
http://www.generator-line.com/fuel-systems.html
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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2014, 05:09:34 pm »

Here is another.  No mods, and for God's sake, no Kludge
http://www.generator-line.com/fuel-systems.html

I've got a request for info in to Honda regarding this.  Waiting for an answer.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2014, 05:23:56 pm »

Here is another.  No mods, and for God's sake, no Kludge
http://www.generator-line.com/fuel-systems.html

Something like this appears to be safe at first blush. One would think that the marine guys would have figured this out since small boats often have these remote fuel tanks, and fire on a boat is truly terrifying.

As far as the OP, the beauty of a pair of smaller inverter generators that can be paralleled is that they can be split up for smaller shows, they sip fuel compared to big constant RPM motors, and the redundancy factor could be important. Plus these small Honda gennys  are really quiet compared to many mid-sized diesel units. Of course, the really large diesel generators can be super quiet as well, are delivered on a trailer, and will run all day without thinking about refilling. However, not every gig can afford the rental price or the room.

As long as they can be made electrically safe, pass all inspections for fuel and grounding using manufacturer approved hardware, and generate clean power, I don't see any reason to avoid using paralleled inverter generators for smaller stages.   
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2014, 05:42:18 pm »

Mike can you look at the info in the link I posted.  I'm specifically interested in their claims about non power factor corrected loads, neutral currents and inverter damage.

The theory makes sense to me but they don't discuss the ampacity of the loads created by their indicated conditions, and I question whether it is enough to matter....


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Mike Sokol

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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2014, 06:33:10 pm »

Mike can you look at the info in the link I posted.  I'm specifically interested in their claims about non power factor corrected loads, neutral currents and inverter damage.

The theory makes sense to me but they don't discuss the ampacity of the loads created by their indicated conditions, and I question whether it is enough to matter....


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A quick read of their website gets my spidey sense tingling. They're using the fear of 3-phase triplen harmonic currents in the neutral to promote their special modified Honda generators running in parallel mode. Of course generators in parallel mode are at 0 degree phase angle (so no triplen harmonics), and even if they were running at 180 degrees for a true 240/120 volt output, there's still no triplen currents.

So while I think that running Honda generators in parallel using the factory kit is safe and legal, I think these specially modified units to eliminate non-existent triplen harmonics is a sales pitch full of boloney.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure I just finished a big crab and shrimp birthday party (yes, Maryland Blue Crabs and jumbo shrimp) with my twin brother who flew in from California and my own twin boys who just turned 21, I've had quite a few toasts this afternoon and not in full IQ mode. However, I'll read it over once again tomorrow and see if it still tracks the same way. Seems fishy to me, and not the good kind of fishy... ::)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 07:20:17 pm by Mike Sokol »
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Mike Sokol
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Re: Paralleling Two Generators
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2014, 06:33:10 pm »


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