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Author Topic: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?  (Read 19802 times)

jason misterka

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2014, 10:46:45 pm »

Again, if anything should go wrong you're on the hook for damages, long cable runs lose voltage and present tripping hazards and as mentioned before, tripping a breaker means having to go into the house to reset.

Generator is a better bet all around.

He says the second house is 100 feet away. Not the first house.  And how close to your PA do you put the generator? I usually spec a generator 75' from the "stage" to keep the noise down.

Come on folks.  Using two circuits from two houses IS an issue. Using two circuits from one panel on one house shouldn't typically be.

Maybe I'm the only one that has had four or five problems with large generators over the last year.  I'd much rather be on shore power.

And on the hook for damages using two Edison circuits from someone's house? Probably, but the risk is low. But you are also on the hook if you set the woods on fire (saw a little generator do that a few years ago...)

I'm just saying,  he's running two amps on each circuit.  Unless they are Crest 9001 running full tilt boogie, he should be fine for a fireworks show.

Jason
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2014, 11:15:49 pm »

He says the second house is 100 feet away. Not the first house.  And how close to your PA do you put the generator? I usually spec a generator 75' from the "stage" to keep the noise down.

Come on folks.  Using two circuits from two houses IS an issue. Using two circuits from one panel on one house shouldn't typically be.

Maybe I'm the only one that has had four or five problems with large generators over the last year.  I'd much rather be on shore power.

And on the hook for damages using two Edison circuits from someone's house? Probably, but the risk is low. But you are also on the hook if you set the woods on fire (saw a little generator do that a few years ago...)

I'm just saying,  he's running two amps on each circuit.  Unless they are Crest 9001 running full tilt boogie, he should be fine for a fireworks show.

Jason
Yeah, BUT.... The OP stated that he cannot get 2 circuits from one house, but instead one from each of 2 houses. Hence the reason for the major discussion about it! And if you need to put your generators 75' away, you need to start working with the larger diesels, cos you can put one of those next to a stage and be OK noise-wise. In any case, the OP mentions he can get an EU3000is for $100; and that thing is gonna be quieter then anything else out there anyways.

And if the woods catch on fire, that's why you have a fire extinguisher there, any time you're on a generator... right? right?

No problems on large generators here, but I also always work with reputable suppliers, and meter my shit first. And if something's wrong, that gets fixed. Before the show.

Either way, in the end, I would rather see someone do the best practice because they know it's better, not because they're being forced to. I would rather someone say "it's gonna be a bit harder/more expensive to do it right, but I am not about to take a shortcut."

-Ray
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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2014, 11:22:59 pm »

He says the second house is 100 feet away. Not the first house.  And how close to your PA do you put the generator? I usually spec a generator 75' from the "stage" to keep the noise down.

Come on folks.  Using two circuits from two houses IS an issue. Using two circuits from one panel on one house shouldn't typically be.

Maybe I'm the only one that has had four or five problems with large generators over the last year.  I'd much rather be on shore power.

And on the hook for damages using two Edison circuits from someone's house? Probably, but the risk is low. But you are also on the hook if you set the woods on fire (saw a little generator do that a few years ago...)

I'm just saying,  he's running two amps on each circuit.  Unless they are Crest 9001 running full tilt boogie, he should be fine for a fireworks show.

Jason

I can set my EU3000i twenty feet from the stage and you can't really hear it running.  If I wanted to I could put it behind a half sheet of plywood and get even closer.

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jason misterka

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2014, 11:37:11 pm »

Yeah, BUT.... The OP stated that he cannot get 2 circuits from one house, but instead one from each of 2 houses. Hence the reason for the major discussion about it! And if you need to put your generators 75' away, you need to start working with the larger diesels, cos you can put one of those next to a stage and be OK noise-wise. In any case, the OP mentions he can get an EU3000is for $100; and that thing is gonna be quieter then anything else out there anyways.

And if the woods catch on fire, that's why you have a fire extinguisher there, any time you're on a generator... right? right?

No problems on large generators here, but I also always work with reputable suppliers, and meter my shit first. And if something's wrong, that gets fixed. Before the show.

Either way, in the end, I would rather see someone do the best practice because they know it's better, not because they're being forced to. I would rather someone say "it's gonna be a bit harder/more expensive to do it right, but I am not about to take a shortcut."

-Ray

We are surely getting off topic here but I still disagree.

Show me a house that only has ONE circuit. The OP can probably only get one circuit because that is what is convenient to the home owner. $50 would probably change that.  Possibly even get a four wire range plug if needed.

I still don't feel like a generator is necessarily the "best way".  Yes it is better than running from two circuits in two houses.

I guess we work different shows. Most of my generator rentals are 60kw to 125kw.  Had a 175kw from Sunbelt do some crazy things on day two of a festival last year.

We don't put them near the stage because you CAN hear them and the get into the mics.  Even the modern "WhisperWatt" ones.  Not terribly, but enough that I still put them at 75',

Not that that probably matters one bit one a fireworks show.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.  This horse has been beaten.

Jason
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2014, 11:45:56 pm »

Show me a house that only has ONE circuit. The OP can probably only get one circuit because that is what is convenient to the home owner. $50 would probably change that.  Possibly even get a four wire range plug if needed.

You're missing the OP's situation. It's not that the house only has one circuit (that'd be stupid. I can't believe you suggested that was the case.) - it's just that the two houses only are willing to provide him with one each.

I guess we work different shows. Most of my generator rentals are 60kw to 125kw.  Had a 175kw from Sunbelt do some crazy things on day two of a festival last year.

Well I don't rent, I own five generators. So yeah. When the ball is in your court to ensure that they are working, all the time, without fail, you spend a bit more time making sure that you're not going to have problems. And I rent to others in my area, cos I will do it for them (as a cross rent) for cheaper then Sunbelt. And they know that my gensets are going to work for them cos my reputation is on the line each and every time. Regular, preventive maintenance is crucial, and you never know with the big houses where the unit was before your event. And what someone did to it.

-Ray
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2014, 11:48:30 pm »

There is no neutral wire with the primary lines between substations. I have also seen some feeder distribution schemes where there is no common neutral with the feeder lines; the neutral is derived from the secondary side of a three phase transformer bank or even from earth ground.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I have ever seen a transmission line that did not carry a grounded wire that is grounded at every pole.  The whole idea of grounding/bonding is to keep everything that should not be energized at nearly the same potential.  If that is not successful then electrically unintentional connections between homes-such as metallic water lines, gas lines, telco/cable lines, or even chain link fence that connects virtually every home on the block in some areas become hazards waiting to bite someone.

I don't say that to argue for pulling power from two homes.  There are too many ifs, and more controlled/reliable solutions are available at minor cost.  I am saying that you need to consider the whole system.  Drawn out in line diagram, other than the ground bond (a huge issue to be sure), this system is in reality probably simpler and smaller than the electrical system in a medium to  large venue-and if the venue has much age on it, the ground bond might not be a given or any better there either.
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jason misterka

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2014, 12:06:52 am »

You're missing the OP's situation. It's not that the house only has one circuit (that'd be stupid. I can't believe you suggested that was the case.) - it's just that the two houses only are willing to provide him with one each.

-Ray

And my point was that $50 to the home owner may go a long way towards accessing a second circuit.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2014, 12:15:51 am »

And my point was that $50 to the home owner may go a long way towards accessing a second circuit.

That is always possible. However... I am going to go out on a limb, though, and surmise that since the OP is here asking the questions that he is asking, he's already exhausted all other options in getting more power from a single house. Just sayin' - I feel like he's done his due diligence already.

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2014, 12:21:39 am »

Everyone.... Time to put this subject to bed.

Thx

Mike Sokol
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2014, 12:24:11 am »

Everyone.... Time to put this subject to bed.

Thx

Mike Sokol

sowwy   :-[
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Re: Pulling power for ONE PA, from two different sources?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2014, 12:24:11 am »


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