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[jasonfinnigan]

We currently have access to many MBT Par 64 cans which along with dimmers for them. The problem I'd like to solve is 1.) the cost of a dimmer rack if we were to aquire one as this even used is is in the 6k range. And power consumption, 40 or less par 64s can take 300amps.
We usually use a 100AMP Distro for Sound, and I'd like to be able to get all lighting on that too, simple festival setups, no intelight lighting just par cans. well LED par cans. I believe from my figures that I could to up to 30 or more on one 20AMP Cirucit off our distro with LED par 64s.

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/slimpar-64-rgba.html  I'm looking that those, does anyone have any experience with them? it seems what I've found online is mostly DJs using them as uplighting, I want to use them on flown truss sections in place of where we'd normally use Par cans for lighting will they work good for concert stage lighting or are they really only meant for uplighting?

Also are there cheap/inexpensive LED Molefrays/crowdblinders?

Here is an example of the type stage we usually work with sorry, I know the pictures not that great but I hope it helps. We do outdoor festivals they averaging 2,500 people.





Here here's an unfortunately very small picture of another event going on there to give you an idea of the size.

[jasonfinnigan]

Double Post Sorry

[Jamin Lynch]

We currently have access to many MBT Par 64 cans which along with dimmers for them. The problem I'd like to solve is 1.) the cost of a dimmer rack if we were to aquire one as this even used is is in the 6k range. And power consumption, 40 or less par 64s can take 300amps.
We usually use a 100AMP Distro for Sound, and I'd like to be able to get all lighting on that too, simple festival setups, no intelight lighting just par cans. well LED par cans. I believe from my figures that I could to up to 30 or more on one 20AMP Cirucit off our distro with LED par 64s.

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/slimpar-64-rgba.html  I'm looking that those, does anyone have any experience with them? it seems what I've found online is mostly DJs using them as uplighting, I want to use them on flown truss sections in place of where we'd normally use Par cans for lighting will they work good for concert stage lighting or are they really only meant for uplighting?

Also are there cheap/inexpensive LED Molefrays/crowdblinders?

Here is an example of the type stage we usually work with sorry, I know the pictures not that great but I hope it helps. We do outdoor festivals they averaging 2,500 people.

Those don't put out much light at all.

[Rob Spence]

I am guessing you have used 500 watt PAR64 fixtures. You need very bright LED fixtures to be as bright as 500 watt conventional lights.

Look up the amount of lumens for the LED fixtures you are interested.

A 500 watt medium PAR lamp is around 6500 lumens.


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[jasonfinnigan]

I am guessing you have used 500 watt PAR64 fixtures. You need very bright LED fixtures to be as bright as 500 watt conventional lights.

Look up the amount of lumens for the LED fixtures you are interested.

A 500 watt medium PAR lamp is around 6500 lumens.


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I guess I was under the false assumption that since traditional PAR Lamps are 500 or 1,000watts that a PAR 64 LED was of the same equivalent light output.  Guess I'll stick with traditional par 64s.

[Neil Ottenbreit]

I guess I was under the false assumption that since traditional PAR Lamps are 500 or 1,000watts that a PAR 64 LED was of the same equivalent light output.  Guess I'll stick with traditional par 64s.

IMO you would be crazy not to look further into LED's. I would suggest finding some local to try or just buy a couple of sample fixtures and ebay them when you are done.

LED may not be as bright as a traditional par in open white, but for just about any color with any level of saturation the LEDs win hands down. In addition you get the benefit of not having to carry around dimmers and all the extra power you need for traditional pars. The LED's give you much more flexibility too, strobing, etc.

I think if you tried some decent LED's you would be impressed.

I wouldn't look at anything less than these;

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/slimpar-quad-12-irc.html

Neil

[jasonfinnigan]

I would suggest finding some local to try or just buy a couple of sample fixtures and ebay them when you are done.

Trying them local would be next to impossible as I'm sure is in most areas. I can source all the Par 64s or Source4s, Spots, moving heads etc I want for cross rent. But no one has updated to led fixtures yet.

If I could find out the power output of these it would be great for example even that SlimParQuad you linked to didn't list the the lumens in the specs or manual.

[duane massey]

These are a great fixture for the $$$, just did 2 installs using them:
http://www.venuesupply.com/detail/mega-lite-baby-color-q70-ultra-compact-color-changing-rgbw-led-wash-fixture-w-double-mounting-yoke-diffuser-and-more-5753

[Cailen Waddell]

I am guessing you have used 500 watt PAR64 fixtures. You need very bright LED fixtures to be as bright as 500 watt conventional lights.

Look up the amount of lumens for the LED fixtures you are interested.

A 500 watt medium PAR lamp is around 6500 lumens.


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This is true when you are looking at white light.   Put some R88 gel with 2% transmission and you are down to 130 lumens.  Now an led par can suddenly kick some ass. 

It's all about trade offs and what you need the fixture to do.  Looking at the pictures - I would say you would be a good candidate for some led pars, but might want to keep some conventionals in the rig for white. A hybrid approach. 


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[duane massey]

+1 on the hybrid approach.

[Josh Daws]

the slimpar quads are amazing...i have been using the 6IRC, and they have an output similar to a 300w Par56 can. so my thought is that the 12IRC, would be similar to a 500w par can, but probably not...maybe closer to a 400w...

the 6IRC beam spread is a MFL...assumably the 12IRC is the same. i have been using these for a while now and cannot speak more highly of them. the bonus side is that they also come with a Gel frame, so that if you want/need to soften the beam a little you can. and you can also get a really nice white from them. i have had great success with them for many applications, including TV/FILM....

[Jonathan Goodall]

Trying them local would be next to impossible as I'm sure is in most areas. I can source all the Par 64s or Source4s, Spots, moving heads etc I want for cross rent. But no one has updated to led fixtures yet.

If I could find out the power output of these it would be great for example even that SlimParQuad you linked to didn't list the the lumens in the specs or manual.

The slimpar 12 is 4500 lux @ 2m

Also +1 for the quad 6 that Josh mentioned.

[(Brian) Frost]

We currently have access to many MBT Par 64 cans which along with dimmers for them. The problem I'd like to solve is 1.) the cost of a dimmer rack if we were to aquire one as this even used is is in the 6k range. And power consumption, 40 or less par 64s can take 300amps.
We usually use a 100AMP Distro for Sound, and I'd like to be able to get all lighting on that too, simple festival setups, no intelight lighting just par cans. well LED par cans. I believe from my figures that I could to up to 30 or more on one 20AMP Cirucit off our distro with LED par 64s.

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/slimpar-64-rgba.html  I'm looking that those, does anyone have any experience with them? it seems what I've found online is mostly DJs using them as uplighting, I want to use them on flown truss sections in place of where we'd normally use Par cans for lighting will they work good for concert stage lighting or are they really only meant for uplighting?

Also are there cheap/inexpensive LED Molefrays/crowdblinders?

Here is an example of the type stage we usually work with sorry, I know the pictures not that great but I hope it helps. We do outdoor festivals they averaging 2,500 people.





Here here's an unfortunately very small picture of another event going on there to give you an idea of the size.

I think 4-8 conventional fixtures to provide the white/pink component to the front line and 12-20 brighter fixtures like the blizzard q12a or newer rokbox fixtures would easily light that stage and provide a ton of lighting options for a LD to play with that they just wouldnt get with conventionals.  You'd be under 40 amps with that.

[Rick Powell]

I think 4-8 conventional fixtures to provide the white/pink component to the front line and 12-20 brighter fixtures like the blizzard q12a or newer rokbox fixtures would easily light that stage and provide a ton of lighting options for a LD to play with that they just wouldnt get with conventionals.  You'd be under 40 amps with that.

Agreed.  We have 4 Blizzard Q12A's and 4 Blizzard Puck3's in our show plus 4 50 watt generic Chinese movers and 8 Blizzard RokSpots.  Any stage up to 30 x 15 is plenty bright with our setup, and with LED's you get 4 pars for the price of one (seeing as how an incandescent par can't change colors but an LED can will).  Agree on the superior color saturation of an LED par vs. a gelled incandescent par, especially for blues.  However, the "look" of LEDs is definitely different and LEDs put out a narrower spectrum range as compared to incandescent in color rendering.  We'd add more conventional pars for white, but we are trying to stay out of distro world for now. 

[jasonfinnigan]

Wouldn't something like the SlimPAR™ QUAD 12 IRC not need conventional incandescent as they have RGBA and the amber should allow you to achieve the same nature look of the incandescent.

Incadescents aren't "white" they are more warm around 2,500-3,000 Kelvin

[Paul G. OBrien]

Wouldn't something like the SlimPAR™ QUAD 12 IRC not need conventional incandescent as they have RGBA and the amber should allow you to achieve the same nature look of the incandescent.

Incadescents aren't "white" they are more warm around 2,500-3,000 Kelvin

Yes you can get pretty damn close even with an RGB fixture.. just take a little blue out.

[Josh Daws]

juts to continue on from Jason, IMHO even with RGB fixtures you can dial in a great looking "warm white". you just got to work it a little....for my typically my go to is roughly R-95% G-100% B-40%...

people seem to think that because these values are a very cool white at 100% each that LEDs are horrible for front wash, which is just lazy...LEDS work great for front wash, and as i have said, you can get a great looking warm white....

[Cailen Waddell]

juts to continue on from Jason, IMHO even with RGB fixtures you can dial in a great looking "warm white". you just got to work it a little....for my typically my go to is roughly R-95% G-100% B-40%...

people seem to think that because these values are a very cool white at 100% each that LEDs are horrible for front wash, which is just lazy...LEDS work great for front wash, and as i have said, you can get a great looking warm white....

For a band?  Yeah you can get an half way ok approximation of warm white with most rgb fixtures.  With rgba or rgbw you can get close enough that I would consider the COLOR acceptable for most applications.  But it won't have the punch, especially if you are doing a one for one changeout outs on 1k par 64s. 

I have designed all led rigs, and hybrid rigs for venues I manage and a mobile rig for our stageline sl100....  Hybrid is still the way to go most of the time.  When you get under 300 seats, LEDs start to become a real option for all fixtures though. 


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[Josh Daws]

For a band?  Yeah you can get an half way ok approximation of warm white with most rgb fixtures.  With rgba or rgbw you can get close enough that I would consider the COLOR acceptable for most applications.  But it won't have the punch, especially if you are doing a one for one changeout outs on 1k par 64s. 

I have designed all led rigs, and hybrid rigs for venues I manage and a mobile rig for our stageline sl100....  Hybrid is still the way to go most of the time.  When you get under 300 seats, LEDs start to become a real option for all fixtures though. 


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fore warning, this is going to sound like a "toot my own horn" and a "you know nothing, but i know more" kind of post...not meaning to (kinda), but are you seriously using 1k Par64 on a SL100, that is hugely overkill.....anyways i digress...read below, and tear me a new one!....im open...

sooo i have designed such rigs myself, for both stage, tv, and film, and have all been perfectly acceptable. now im still yet to find a fixture that will replace a 1kPar64, however we have been using DTS DeltaR, and these have been working amazingly well for frontwash...oh if you are dropping stageline models, we have a SL50, 2 x SL100, 1 x SL250. To be upfront, we do use a mix for frontwash for DTS DeltaR, and ETC Source4, not just for the sake for "warm white" its for coverage, and also so we can spot/profile and still use color as well....the SL250 is a huge area to light up...

for the SL100, i have used 12 of the Chauvet QUAD PAR6 IRC across the front, with diffusion, and it looks and works out great!

[Cailen Waddell]

fore warning, this is going to sound like a "toot my own horn" and a "you know nothing, but i know more" kind of post...not meaning to (kinda), but are you seriously using 1k Par64 on a SL100, that is hugely overkill.....anyways i digress...read below, and tear me a new one!....im open...

sooo i have designed such rigs myself, for both stage, tv, and film, and have all been perfectly acceptable. now im still yet to find a fixture that will replace a 1kPar64, however we have been using DTS DeltaR, and these have been working amazingly well for frontwash...oh if you are dropping stageline models, we have a SL50, 2 x SL100, 1 x SL250. To be upfront, we do use a mix for frontwash for DTS DeltaR, and ETC Source4, not just for the sake for "warm white" its for coverage, and also so we can spot/profile and still use color as well....the SL250 is a huge area to light up...

for the SL100, i have used 12 of the Chauvet QUAD PAR6 IRC across the front, with diffusion, and it looks and works out great!

I'm not trying to see whose rig is bigger - if it came off that way, sorry.  I'm saying that, and perhaps I am a snob, the only face light fixtures i find acceptable in color and brightness that are LED, and color mixing are made by ETC. We don't use our d40 lustrs or s4 LEDs outside though... We use a bunch if Chauvet colorado IP fixtures and they are fine.... It's just bands, the front light is rarely white anyway, but it doesn't look good to my eye...  Like I said maybe I am a snob.  My background is theater where things are sometimes more nuanced than concert/band lighting, certainly that plays into it as well.

We do have a dozen of the Chauvet qwash 560z and I will say they are the only non etc fixture that really gets close for me.   They are rgbaw, I would guess that is why.  And they are a moving head with zoom... For backlight it's almost a no brainer.

Oh - and we don't use 1k pars on our sl100, as I said above, 24 Chauvet Colorado ip fixtures.... It's enough light for me most of the time, but I would like another dozen fixtures.  I was referring to the OP who appears to have some double hung par bars, with presumable 500w or 1kw pars.  I was attempting to highlight that he isn't going to get the punch or white out of led to replace the n/c wash on his parbar rig.  A hybrid approach will offer him the best results IMHO.


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