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Author Topic: Reccomendations for Consultants/Sellers  (Read 2461 times)

Lance Rectanus

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Reccomendations for Consultants/Sellers
« on: May 27, 2014, 02:16:35 pm »

I am looking for recommendations for consultants/sellers in the Cleveland/Toledo Ohio area with experience working with churches. Our church is looking to upgrade our single projector and portable screen with a permanent setup this year.

Any opinions on projectors/screens vs. flat-panel tvs? The viewing distances involved are @ 50’deep  by @ 40’ wide and the maximum seating capacity is 200 people. Currently we use PowerPoint to project lyrics and sermon talking points and an occasional short video.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 08:51:21 am by Lance Rectanus »
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Lance Rectanus

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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 05:10:29 pm »

So, apparently there is no one in Northern Ohio that is offers this type of service. Or, if they exist, they aren't active on these boards!

Here's the story: our church has budgeted $10,000 (this number not set in stone) to upgrade from our single portable projector/screen to a permanent installation. We use the screen for lyrics and sermon talking points. Occasionally we will play a video that is provided to us on a DVD by a third party. I don't envision the usage changing dramatically in the next 3 or 4 years.

We are leaning towards 3 - 70" (or so) flat panel tvs and a new pc to drive them. The cable run from the pc to the farthest tvs will be a maximum of 100" and probably closer to 85'. I believe that this distance is too far for HDMI without amplifiers/extenders. I primarily need help with how to get the signal split 3 ways and from the pc to the screens. I need a solid, simple method of either converting the signal to/from non-HDMI signal or recommendations on extenders/repeaters/amplifiers if HDMI is the way to go. The new cabling will follow an existing cable trough, but will be run by a licensed electrician for the AV signal and the new electrical supplies for the displays.

Any thoughts/recommendations/past experiences?
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Jeff Carter

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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2014, 06:34:06 pm »

I am looking for recommendations for consultants/sellers in the Cleveland/Toledo Ohio area with experience working with churches. Our church is looking to upgrade our single projector and portable screen with a permanent setup this year.

Any opinions on projectors/screens vs. flat-panel tvs? The viewing distances involved are @ 50’deep  by @ 40’ wide and the maximum seating capacity is 200 people. Currently we use PowerPoint to project lyrics and sermon talking points and an occasional short video.

How big is the screen you're using now? I have a hard time imagining a flat-panel TV is going to be big enough when viewed from 50 feet away. Try making the projected image you have now the size of your proposed flat-panel TV and see if it works for you.
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Lance Rectanus

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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2014, 07:08:59 pm »

Currently we are using a 4:3 ratio screen with a max area of 39" x 52", of which I only fill @ 36" vertically to avoid the ripples at the top and bottom edges. The 70" screens than I have been looking at measure roughly 36 x 60. The flat panels would be mounted about 10-15 feet closer to the pews than the screen is. I have attached a photo with the proposed locations of the flat panels in green. The 3rd flat panel, still haven't decided 100% on this one, would be mounted facing forward for the minister and band.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 12:40:41 am »

Lance,

Visual acuity in regards to text relies on height, not width.  Typical multipliers for viewing distances are 4 (medical documents, fine details), 6 (Powerpoint/Keynote presentations, videos with text or finer detail), and 8 (slideshow loops, background images/text, etc.).

So, if your image height is about 3ft, then your maximum viewing distance should be between 18ft-24ft.

Text height also plays a role; there are formulas to consider, but it depends on the visual acuity of the viewers, too, as well as the size of the screen you're considering.
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Jordan Wolf
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"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

Lance Rectanus

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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 08:31:53 pm »

Lance,

Visual acuity in regards to text relies on height, not width.  Typical multipliers for viewing distances are 4 (medical documents, fine details), 6 (Powerpoint/Keynote presentations, videos with text or finer detail), and 8 (slideshow loops, background images/text, etc.).

So, if your image height is about 3ft, then your maximum viewing distance should be between 18ft-24ft.

Text height also plays a role; there are formulas to consider, but it depends on the visual acuity of the viewers, too, as well as the size of the screen you're considering.

Jordan-

I have seen this 4/6/8 rule cited many times before, but I have a hard time believing its application in a church setting such as ours. It seems it might be appropriate for street signage that is driven by. I have seen this same metric quoted in a sign/display trade magazine that I get related to my job. In those articles they talk about needing to grab people's attention in the few moments that they can see the sign.

Our maximum distance at the moment is 60 feet, which will drop to 45 feet with the new proposed screen positioning. By your numbers our screen should be at least 7.5 feet tall and possibly 10. I don't see even the smaller number being practical in most churches, except in a new construction situation. We are trying to adapt a 45 year old design to include some of the modern touches without offending the sensibilities of our long-term members. So we need to compromise somewhat, but I feel that whether we went with projectors/screens or flat panels we would still end up in the 60-80 inch diagonal range. The church, physically, doesn't lend itself to anything much bigger.

By the way - the photo above doesn't show the 10 foot tall cross that hangs above the altar. It was down for maintenance (after the 40 year old wires that suspended it had corroded) when this photo was taken.

One final point; the only complaint from our members is that they wish the existing screen was higher since many of them can't see the existing screen over the heads of the people standing in front of them. When the slide-creators don't put too many words on one slide, there really aren't any legibility problems from the rearmost pew.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 04:16:36 pm »

One final point; the only complaint from our members is that they wish the existing screen was higher since many of them can't see the existing screen over the heads of the people standing in front of them. When the slide-creators don't put too many words on one slide, there really aren't any legibility problems from the rearmost pew.

The aforementioned "formula" for determining the optimum vertical dimension for the screen most likely assumes certain content, and letters of a certain size. If you are able to use a larger font for your songs and you are not doing imag (image magnification) of the people on stage, a smaller screen such as you are proposing may be perfectly suitable. It's all about knowing the limitations of the equipment, knowing your needs, and matching the two.

A flat panel display is very likely going to provide a sharper image and better contrast than projector and screen. It will likely be brighter in a fully-lit room**. These factors all mean that smaller text will be more legible on the flat panel display than it will be on a projector screen. Many people find they can get by with a flat panel display that's smaller than the minimum projector screen they would need. Anymore, I think the main advantage of a projector screen is that it can be retracted when not in use to improve the visual appearance of the sanctuary.

**Of course, regardless of whether you choose a flat panel display or a projector, you want to keep direct lighting away from the screen.
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Re: Recommendations for Consultants/Sellers
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 04:16:36 pm »


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